Fuso 3.0 , Duonic transmission, SCR ?

McCulloch

New member
I'm in Canada, John. About 250 miles north west of you. Both my trucks landed in the US, Seattle I think, and were shipped north. I suspect US and Canada trucks are spec'd the same and dealers pull from the same inventory so all NA trucks will need transmission replacement. I have also been told that the Daimler engineers are involved with helping Mitsubishi resolve the DPF issues. There have been numerous recalls for a lot of silly little things like smoothing rough cut shrouds, passenger seat belt operation and similar items. Those recalls can be done on a planned basis and don't concern me. As a business owner I'm concerned with reliability, cost of operation and capability. The first item is an issue that I hope is resolved as cost of operation and capability look to be positive. I run a small fleet of about a dozen trucks and to give you an idea of employee perception of the vehicles one of my employees remarked the other day "And we thought the Ford 6.0's were bad". Not a good omen for customer perception of Mitsubishi reliability.
 

McCulloch

New member
Both transmissions have been replaced and I think they will be reliable. They continue to hunt for the correct gear and are slow to select a gear when accelerating from a slow roll. I am hopeful that this can be fixed via reflash but I have heard of nothing. The work around is to use the manual mode when you think the transmission will not react as expected/required. DPF issues remain and are moisture related. Harnesses and connectors get wet and then send false indications and the engine management de-rates the engine. Our weather is getting drier so I suspect we will have fewer problems until fall. I understand this is the problem Daimler is working on with Mitsubishi. The good news is that the 125 with 7000 miles, is now getting 15.1 miles per imperial gallon.
 

dlh62c

Explorer
There should be a dash mounted switch to change the transmission between ‘Performance' and ‘Economy' modes. In ‘Economy' mode, the transmission supposedly up-shifts at lower revs. When in ‘Economy' mode, does the transmission seem to get confused? Does it unwisely up-shift with the engine bogging down and then seem about to stall? At this point did you try switching to ‘Performance' mode and did it immediately recover?

DPF issues remain and are moisture related. Harnesses and connectors get wet and then send false indications and the engine management de-rates the engine. Our weather is getting drier so I suspect we will have fewer problems until fall.

Have you considered using Dielectric Grease on the harness connectors?
 
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PeterM

New member
Good lord... what is Mitsubishi/Fuso doing? The only known DPF problem with the F1C base engine in Europe is city use with the engine not reaching sufficient exhaust temperature, running idle most time. Is the problem with the seal of the two parts of the connector or with connector-to-cabeling?
 

McCulloch

New member
The "eco" mode for the transmission changes shift points and is only for use when the truck is unloaded and on level ground. I'll check the manual and post the exact verbiage but that's the intent. Up hills and coming to a stop is where the longest transmission delay is. Under load the eco mode is useless and makes an underpowered vehicle very frustrating. Using the manual mode of the transmission is a preferred method but requires a driver with enough experience with the vehicle to understand when the transmission is likely to exhibit problems. Both vehicles are under warranty so I'm reluctant to try anything myself but at the last event I suggested to the dealer tech that he try a moisture displacing spray like CRC 2-26 or perhaps dielectric grease. He said that he preferred to let Mitsubishi find a solution as the problem he felt was the location of the DPF tank being in the spray thrown from the front wheel. He believed that shielding of some type needed to be fabricated because the wiring,sensors and the tank are getting soaked in a heavy rain and just dielectric grease wouldn't solve the problem. He hadn't heard of CRC when I mentioned it. We used to find CRC useful when I worked with the road service part of the local AAA about 40 years ago in the time of points and distributor caps.
 

dlh62c

Explorer
The operator can only use 'Econ' mode while driving in the automatic shift mode. It causes the transmission to make up-shifts earlier and makes the transmission less likely to shift down when the accelerator pedal is depressed. How does the truck perform when you turn 'Econ' mode off?

He said that he preferred to let Mitsubishi find a solution as the problem he felt was the location of the DPF tank being in the spray thrown from the front wheel. He believed that shielding of some type needed to be fabricated because the wiring,sensors and the tank are getting soaked in a heavy rain and just dielectric grease wouldn't solve the problem.

DEF is stored in a tank. So the faults your getting are DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) related and not related to the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter)?
 
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McCulloch

New member
The vehicles are never driven in eco mode. All problems occur with eco mode off. Who knows where the problems originate? Not me, not the tech and not the Mitsu help line. The tech believes the most likely spot is the DEF tank and associated wiring and sensors as they are located in the spray from the front wheel and occur in heavy rain. I drove the 125 this morning and at about 5mph in second gear, transmission in normal auto mode, up about a 20% driveway went to make a right turn on to a main street. Depressed accelerator and truck continued to slow, came to a stop and began to roll backwards. Just over 7000 miles on the odometer, truck was loaded to a weight of between 10 and 11 thousand pounds well under the 12,500 max. This event was preceded by a new warning light about a half hour before the roll back. I got a solid red transmission temperature warning while doing 10 mph in second gear up a short incline. Shut it down and reached for the manual to find out about this new exciting warning light and when I restarted the truck the light was off and did not come back on over the next 3 hours of driving. Weather was dry and it was about 40 degrees F. When I got back to the office I dropped the 160 off to the dealer with a steady check engine light. It had been coming and going over the last couple of days and came on solid late yesterday afternoon according to the drivers text this morning. These things are so unreliable you just have to laugh. My fault for buying them as I was fooled by watching Fuso's being abused and surviving in National Geographic and on CNN and I imagined they would be as reliable as my 80 series. Best part of owning these is the fact that the dealer is right across the street from my shop.
 
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John E Davies

Adventurer
I have to say that these posts are pretty darn depressing. I would never for a moment commit to buying a new FUSO until all these serious issues were fully worked out.

Did Mitsubishi assign all their beginner engineers to this design? It sure seems as if there are just way too many purely stupid engineering problems. It boggles the mind!

John Davies
Spokane WA USA
 

dlh62c

Explorer
The tech believes the most likely spot is the DEF tank and associated wiring and sensors as they are located in the spray from the front wheel and occur in heavy rain.

McCulloch

I can sense the frustration in your post.

Does the tech think there's two distinct failures, one being DEF related and the second being the transmission, or does he think their related?

Have they read the OBD fault codes?

The only DEF faults I can think of would be level, fluid pump, temperature, DEF quality or NOx sensor. DEF quality is important, could someone be pouring their Dr Pepper or Mountain Dew into the DEF tank? I'd sleep better knowing there was a cap lock on it.

Exhaust_0.jpg

Have you considered taking the truck to another dealer?

Please keep us up to date on what happens.

daryl
 
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McCulloch

New member
Re DEF fluid quality. We have had the 160 for a little over a year and 20,000 miles. Besides the transmission replacement and the inframe rebuild we had numerous water in fuel lights and full water separators last winter. This resulted in a half a dozen trips to the dealer and lots of head scratching and draining/sealing of the fuel system. The tech sent a sample of the DEF from the tank for testing to see if that was part of the issue. It was not. The problem did not occur this winter on this truck so whatever the dealer did, on one of those many service visits has resolved that problem. The check engine light this weekend turned out to be a plugged crankcase vent valve. It has eaten a half a gallon of coolant since the inframe a couple of months ago however. No indication of a cooling system leak and oil is not milky. That one is on "watch". This truck has been to the dealer 13 times for problems since delivery.
I think everyone involved thinks there are two different generic issues with the new fusos. First is the transmissions, which are all being replaced if they fit in a range of serial numbers. The second is the multiplex wiring and problems associated with moisture. Re the fault codes on the 125. The last time this happened was about a month ago in heavy rain. From memory got check engine yellow light, then red light and tone. Engine de rated. Stopped for fuel and started and stopped engine to see if that would clear, did not. Decided to head back to dealer, a drive of about 30 miles. After about 10 miles all warning lights went off, tone stopped and engine went back to normal power. Briefly contemplated completing the run but since it was 150 miles each way I kept going back to the dealer. In 10 more miles the original warning indications all returned. I was sitting at the dealer when the tech walked in to begin work at 7. By noon he called and said they had finally been able to clear the codes. The system would allow codes to be read but not cleared until the truck dried out enough in their shop. They did get multiple codes off the truck. This truck has 7000 miles and over half a dozed trips to the dealer. Regarding the dealer they are the go to shop for medium/heavy trucks around here. They have an outstanding reputation but the new Fusos are something different. Everybody, including Fuso, is learning on the fly with these things. The tech that specializes in Fusos is a very competent guy but at a loss and just keeps trying things. The help line is not much help as they don't know either. I have been told daimler is involved with the DEF/DPF/moisture issues and is working with mitsu to resolve. It's going to be pretty dry here for six months so I don't have to worry too much until fall. By then maybe they will have it resolved. I'm hoping the transmission problem is a reflash to get the computer to make quicker decisions around gear selection and throttle position. Thats the problem that is dangerous not inconvenient.
By way of comparison I have a 2012 Ford F550 6.7 that does similar duty to the 160. In the 30,000 miles on that truck it has been back to the dealer for oil changes. Nothing more.
 
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PeterM

New member
Come on, there are two (not really connected) problems..and solutions:
1. seal the tank
2. seal some connectors (probably one giving the fluid level)
Any competent dealer should be able to find quick fixes.

Peter
 

mhiscox

Expedition Leader
THANKS, McCulloch, for all the very useful information and the very skillful writeups. I appreciated having the well laid out descriptions of both problems and potential solutions.

Come on, there are two (not really connected) problems..and solutions: 1. seal the tank; 2. seal some connectors (probably one giving the fluid level). Any competent dealer should be able to find quick fixes.
Sounds like Fuso needs to get in touch with Peter immediately. They have a giant problem and right here on ExPo we have the guy with all the answers. :sombrero:
 

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