FYI- BAJA NORTE VIOLENCE.

Deleted Member 183

Well-known member
I believe I could "paint" a close to perfect scenario of what happened, and who the "players" were/ are (victims, the perps, the "locals", the local cops, and the "Judi's" ( Federal Police)! AND that it will not bring the 3 healthy young men back to life!

I had intimated in my past posts that from my past 50 plus years of exploring Latin America ( 2 several year long trips to & from Central America, dozens of multi month long trips to Baja, my guess 70 or 80 shorter trips, and owning my 14 acres on the beach down there... That things "work different down there" and 99.9% of Americans can't or most likely don't want to figure it out!

First off, the true cartel's do not operate like they are portrayed in the movies or TV!!! The "dirt poor" families that started them are now multi-generational and many/ most of the youngsters from these families are given "world class" educations ( like UCLA/ Stanford MBA's)!

They first off are a business enterprise that just wants to conduct their business efficiently with as little attention to their affairs as possible! Let's face it, those surfers getting killed was just plain old "bad for business" as far as they are concerned!

I have had the pleasure meeting and becoming friends with 2 ExPo members that are DEA agents and they have shared with me some interesting observations about who, where, and what the "motivations" are of the " big dogs" are... And it is not about stealing wheels & tires for their girlfriends cars!
 
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rruff

Explorer
I have had the pleasure meeting and becoming friends with 2 ExPo members that are DEA agents and they have shared with me some interesting observations about who, where, and what the "motivations" are of the " big dogs" are... And it is not about stealing wheels & tires for their girlfriends cars!
Of course not. But per the article linked above and greg.potter's post, the random trouble is mostly wanna-be gangsters who work part-time/free-lance for the cartels.
 

rruff

Explorer
A different take on the crimes

This is an important point, IMO: "Several rival cartels are in operation in the area, including the Tijuana Cartel and the Jalisco Cartel, as well as two factions of the Sinaloa Cartel, the Mayo Zambada and the Chapitos."

If there was just one cartel dominating, it would probably be a lot safer. But it's a war zone, with all the chaos and violence that comes from that.
 

onemanarmy

Explorer
Until you can legally carry down there you have no defense. I know, it doesn't make it right, but what's your options?
Mexico, not much different than Compton or Chicago.

they are wildly different, starting with anywhere in the USA you can be on a level playing field with the criminals.
you see some meth heads (not cartel members.....not sure why there is so much cartel talk in this thread about meth heads stealing tires) stealing your tires, you can hold them at gun point until the non-corrupt cops arrive.

think of how the situation we are discussing here, would have played out at some USA beach, with legal weapon carriers.
 

onemanarmy

Explorer
We've spent a bunch of time recently in Oaxaca because of our connection to the Mezcal industry, and it's nothing short of magical on multiple levels. Not overland thus far. Spent a bunch of time in PV and Jalisco and have a deep desire to get into the areas of Mexico's unbelievable backcountry. Copper Canyon et al.

Nonsense above aside, was planning on taking the wife on our first Baja trip to visit a friend who just settled down there. We won't be going. I value our lives too much. Huge bummer because we love Mexico and we love bringing our cash down there and helping the local economy. We won't stop going to Mexico just removed Baja off the list. Another huge bummer because it's actually practical to get there for overlanding style travel.

I'll just leave this HERE. Harrowing stuff. Unsolvable by us plebes. The problems have roots that are unchangeable forever. More and more of Mexico is sliding into chaos. Enjoy the places you can right now because it's only going to get worse. This is going to sound like hyperbole but civil war is possible and it's really bad for all of us. We're all joined at the hip with our tragic Mexican family.

I find the joking horseplay nature of a lot of these conversation to be childish and stupid. Dead serious subject with loss of life. Please for the love of God, stop joking around about this stuff. It's burning my eyes and I hope the mods (if there are any mods any more here) put a stop to it.

Thank you for posting that link. good read.
 

Deleted Member 183

Well-known member
Of course not. But per the article linked above and greg.potter's post, the random trouble is mostly wanna-be gangsters who work part-time/free-lance for the cartels.

Admittedly, I don't know "squat" about mainland west Mexico above Nayarit! I learned from people that were much older and wiser than my punkass self in the late 70's to "waste no time" driving north for the border, keep your head down, and speed up for the border ASAP!

OKAY! I give up and am going to shut up after sharing MY VIEW!

And that is the "entitled & wealthy" have a stake in keeping the "down in the dirt" low wage worker so disillusioned, in despair, and needing "to get high" to numb their F'd up place in life... FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT!

If our country took a objective approach at solving causes of drug addiction, domestic violence, and homelessness, rather than "dance around" & proselytize over the symptoms. We may actually see a change for the betterment for of us all ( and not just the "mega-rich")!

Until then:
The LEO's are not the bad guy's! They just are being forced into being the janitor's! So please DON'T BLAME THEM!

Let's talk about "recreational drugs" for a minute...

Coke, out of style! Too expensive for anybody other than the "trustafarians" & "high" wage earners ! Those that liked a little "whiff" every now and then... Are scared to death because of what it might be "lased" with. Non-issue!

Weed, if it travels anywhere... It travels from the Pacific states east, north, and south from the US into Mexico! I would bet you a crisp "Bengi" that more green bud travels south into Mexico than any of their "junk weed" travels north!

I'll admit that I smoke a little bit of pot! However, I am not in the business. But boy, I sure know A LOT of people that are! Several of my "grower" friends I have met down in Baja enjoying the winter north swells. They are fresh out of "trim jail" and we have spent a lot of time enjoying the right barrels together. So bobbing out in the ocean with them waiting for the next sets we have had plenty of time to chat.

And here is the "scoop": Since pot has become legal in California ( and other states), the "bottom dropped out of the market". Killer "top shelf" weed that used to sell for +/- $2K a pound is now selling for maybe $400 bucks... If you can find someone to buy it. Making weed legal has made it a non-issue as well.

Brown tar? I doubt it probably barely flashes on the DEA's radar.

Now that we have those "party favors" out of the way...

Lets chat about crystal meth & fentanyl!

These drugs are made from complicated chemicals! There is a lot of attention is paid by the DEA and US Customs Service that these chemicals imported into the US are tracked and monitored!

The chemicals imported into Mexico? Well, not so much so!?!

So who (what country) manufactures these chemicals and GLADLY sells them to a country (our neighbor to the south) and that has little/ or no regard of what they will be used for?

Well that is a "no brainer"... CHINA ( the country that considers the USA as it's #1 ENEMY)!
 
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onemanarmy

Explorer
Release a virus that kills millions
spread deadly chemicals around the world
actively steal billions worth of IP
enslave millions
actilvely speaks of taking out its enemies everywhere
conning poor and corrupt African countries out of everything they own
damming, clearcutting, digging, dumping, polluting all they want

without one single hand slap, infact all the trade contracts are renewed every year!

nuts!
 

mep1811

Gentleman Adventurer
The truth that people are scared of admitting is that Mexico is a Narco State and has been for over 20 years.
There are very few good guys but mostly bad guys and that includes the military and the police.
Along with the lawlessness associated the Narco state are criminal non drug-related criminal activities by actors who know nothing will happen to them due to the lawlessness.

Of course people will have their feelings hurt because of these truths, but I know about these things.
 

rruff

Explorer
Well that is a "no brainer"... CHINA ( the country that considers the USA as it's #1 ENEMY)!
Our oligarchs have been in cahoots with their oligarchs for a long time. That's why we let our manufacturing and infrastructure die and took China from a 3rd world backwater to what it is today. All the people who matter got rich off this deal. Hard to tell what the future will bring, though...
 

1stDeuce

Explorer
My wife and I visited Baja for two weeks in 2016 (I think...). We took the advice of a few people we met at OE... Cross the border and go one day south as quickly as possible without stopping for anything if you can. We were told to get to San Filipe (AKA Saint Phillip because there are a LOT of Americans there...) and get groceries, gas, etc there and not before. It worked out fine. I think coming south from the Pacific coast is a bit more sketchy...

We were told that remote camping well out of sight and off established trails was generally safe, but it was much better to stay in campgrounds where others were present.

We took 5 south to 1 and then that south to Mulege and returned over two weeks. We camped twice on the pacific, at a nice sand beach west of Villa Jesus Maria, and near a whale watching outfit somewhere near BAhia Asuncion... We did have two bigger dogs with us, which were always the main attraction at checkpoints. (one guy would draw the short straw and have to "search" the truck and camper while the rest of them petted the dogs...)

I was careful to lock things up always, and we locked the camper door at night. We even went as far as to put in a slider window between the camper and truck, figuring if things got sketchy in the middle of the night, we would just crawl through, light the fires and go.

I think we would still like to go again. I do not think there is a heavy drug trade in Baja, at least as compared to mainland Mexico...
??
 

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