LR3 Suspension troubleshooting - stiff and bumpy ride, no small bump compliance

TMR

New member
Hi All,

Been doing a lot of reading and trying to determine if I'm going crazy or not. I have taken the car to 2x local independent shops and everything is supposedly fine, however I've found that the car is riding extremely harsh over small bumps and feels as if there is an overabundance of high-speed dampening (high frequency, NOT high vehicle speed). Outside of this, no codes on IID and no lights on the dash. The car has had the LCA bushings replaced with polysport bushings, new front and rear swaybar bushings replaced with polysports, new ball joints, new steering rack, new sway bar end links, and a new AMK compressor recently installed. All the clunking from before has been eliminated.

The car rides well on the highway and soaks up round edged bumps and has some semblance of the 'magic carpet ride' on low-speed dampening. The car raises and lowers no problem, articulates well on offset rolling bumps, and handles 'tight'. The only issue I have is that the car seems to transmit all small bumps - I feel every single expansion joint, railway joint, small bump, and even crosswalk lines. Going over corrugated pavement at lower speeds seems to result in very little compliance. Tires are Pirelli scorpion with plenty of tread, stock 19" sizing. I've played with tire pressures: recommended, lower, higher, etc... to no avail.

And so here is my question - is this how the car should handle and ride? I've never driven an LR3 other than mine and I bought it prior to changing all the aforementioned components. Is this just a quality of the air suspension, or could it be something else? Clogged valve blocks? Worn shocks? The car only has just over 100k miles (170k km's) on it and so I question whether or not the shocks could be worn so quickly. The awesome indy shop I work with says that the car rides well, and that the stiffness that I'm experiencing could be a result of acclimating to the new components, or could be caused by the poly bushings. I understand their point however prior to this LR3, I played with sports cars, many of which utilized poly bushings or heim joints; though stiff, these cars were always able to control and provide compliance in both high/low speed compression. Likewise, I've had SUV's in the past and they never rode this harsh on small bumps. I recognize that this could all be a product of my possibly unrealistic expectations, but my memory of the LR3 when I first purchased it was that it was like driving a soft couch - albeit well controlled without excessive oscillation. Would love all your thoughts and opinions to help troubleshoot, thank you for your time.
 

colb45

Observer
If you look under ASE recommend shock replacement or under the APA recommendations shocks are to be inspected/replaced as needed at 80,000km (50,000 miles) as a general guide line (yes some vehicles and applications will wear out sooner while some will take longer). Fun fact every KM you drive, a shock is going to do approximately 1000 stabilizing actions from road imperfections to bumps, to weight transfer, yada yada you get it.

Due to mileage all point to worn shocks.

From your list of trouble shooting you have left two options, tires and shocks. Really no silver bullet on which one you tackle. My opinion tires are going to be a easier project to complete (new tires on off, minus the dollars being spent $$) but your shocks most likely the culprit.






Just my .02cents, I do work for one of the largest shock companies. Just going with experience that I have seen and dealt with.


Personal note: i had toyo open countries on mine (tires it came with) they were garbage, loud, road terrible. Went to bf KAO2s and loved them, quiter and ride unreal.

I have an LR3 with ~150km on it, rides like butter compared to my Heep.. i mean Jeep.
 

rcharrette

Adventurer
I don't know much on this subject at all however I've seen it mentioned several times on this board and others that the poly bushing are a much firmer ride that stock. Could that be causing it?
 
Concur.....shocks and poly bushings. Poly bushings reduce ride quality significantly over my experience.....performance is most likely increased but longevity and ride quality is debated across the board in almost every vehicle I ran them in. I decided when i rebuilt my suspension that Factory LR RRC control arms were the way to go and love them.

On that note, I didn't do the shocks at the time and now know I need to. I'm off-road quite a bit and my only rough patch now is directly from the shocks being old and worn out. Its first on my list and hoping to score a good price on new EAS units, I just don't know where the best price is just yet.
 

Jwestpro

Explorer
Lol people blaming the dampers (shocks)! They don't transmit road gaps like that even when worn out. You'd be bouncy if they were worn out. They dampen for larger movements than road cracks.

Besides, mine at 130k miles didn't show any signs of that crap but the bushings did and in order to see what changed, I replaced the sway bushings first to feel it. They were responsible most of the weird clunking but then the new control arms really smoothed out everything back to new feeling.

Stiff springs (and bushings) are what transmit road gaps etc and if you're sure you aren't riding on stupid shortened “lift” roads, then it isn't the air springs either unless they are somehow over pressured.

My key is on the poly bushings, esp since you apparently have them everywhere. Be aware there are also a few stiffness grades on those and some idiots think stiffer is better just like they'd assume higher Kelvin lamps are better when in reality the lighting is downhill after they start looking blue.

On our lr3's, same goes for bushings, super stiff is of no use whatsoever. What you described sounds almost identical to when we max out the lift using alt methods which stretches the air spring to max. It's crazy rigid feeling then, so hence my idea that a stiffness (due to air spring or various bushings) is what's causing your harsh ride, not any aspect of the shocks.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
It's not your imagination. The LR3 has a harsh ride. E rates tires, poly bushings, and raised suspensions make it worse. I'm guessing Ford/LR was trying to prevent them from tipping over.

The stiffness from raised suspension has nothing to do with air pressure, and everything to do with steep control arm angles. Pressure doesn't change with height, volume does.
 

yubert

Explorer
<Zapped>

On that note, I didn't do the shocks at the time and now know I need to. I'm off-road quite a bit and my only rough patch now is directly from the shocks being old and worn out. Its first on my list and hoping to score a good price on new EAS units, I just don't know where the best price is just yet.

I found 1A Auto has the best price for non-branded air shocks. Rock Auto had the best price for Arnott which has a lifetime warranty which I had to exercise recently. The top mounting bolts broke off on the driver's side so I can't endorse Arnott.

https://www.1aauto.com/search?q=shocks&year=2005&model=1194
 
I found 1A Auto has the best price for non-branded air shocks. Rock Auto had the best price for Arnott which has a lifetime warranty which I had to exercise recently. The top mounting bolts broke off on the driver's side so I can't endorse Arnott.

https://www.1aauto.com/search?q=shocks&year=2005&model=1194

Thanks for the links.....I'll check them out when I get around to ordering new fronts. Still have not decided on coil conversion yet because I love the EAS and ride quality so much.
 

colb45

Observer
It's not your imagination. The LR3 has a harsh ride. E rates tires, poly bushings, and raised suspensions make it worse. I'm guessing Ford/LR was trying to prevent them from tipping over.

Harsh ride? What are you comparing to? A harsh ride is a Jeep.. or an older defender with worn components...
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
Harsh ride? What are you comparing to? A harsh ride is a Jeep.. or an older defender with worn components...

Compared to any SUV in its class. Compared to my old D1, and D2. Compared to nearly anything. Hell, it's barely better than my Jeep TJ with Bilsteins. My wife's old RAV4 and current Mazda 6 ride smoother. I'm talking stock suspension height, tires, struts, and bushings in good condition. I've driven many LR3s, they just ride like ****.
 
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DividedSky

New member
One thing to note is that the small bump feel (imperfections in the road, not actual bumps/rocks etc) are most effectively dealt with via the TIRES. The higher the load rating on the tire, the stiffer/thicker the side-wall and the less ability the tire has to deform to slight imperfections. Even at similar inflation pressures, a C or D rated tire will feel much smoother than an E rated one.
 

colb45

Observer
Lol people blaming the dampers (shocks)! They don’t transmit road gaps like that even when worn out. You’d be bouncy if they were worn out. They dampen for larger movements than road cracks.

Yes people blame the dampers or struts (case of the LR platform), because over time the hydraulic fluid breaks down (heat fade, use, you name it), also with gas charged shocks over time the seals can and will fade/fail. This will ultimately lead to poor ride control performance. If the shock doesn't have the proper gas pressure to mitigate the bridge joining gap or a larger imperfection (pot hole or whatever) you are going to feel it do "the ability to dampen" isn't like it was when the shocks were newer-ish.

Problem with most shocks and strut assemblies on the market 95% and up will have internal failures before they show visible signs of damage, and most people have no idea how to diagnose worn ride control.



After re-reading and going through it starting to point back to the poly bushings, I have had them in bunch of vehicles. If you want comfort dont bother, they will transfer any and every little vibration.
 
Compared to any SUV in its class. Compared to my old D1, and D2. Compared to nearly anything. Hell, it's barely better than my Jeep TJ with Bilsteins. My wife's old RAV4 and current Mazda 6 ride smoother. I'm talking stock suspension height, tires, struts, and bushings in good condition. I've driven many LR3s, they just ride like ****.

I'm calling BS on the TJ comparison because my TJ buddies tell me everytime they are in my LR3 how awesome the ride is! I recently did 500 miles in a TJ and it was bone stock and couldnt wait to get back in my LR3. Is that bad? NO, but they do not compare because they are two different vehicles in every fashion. My buddy rode with me from San Diego to Yuma and this was after I installed the KM2s.....he's been a Jeep guy his entire life and loves the fact that we could cruise at 85mph and the ride was comfortable and quiet and non-fatiguing. Can my LR3 compete with his kitted out Jeep on straight-offroad comparison...NO, however, he's a pretty smart man to see what a true SUV looks and feels like bone stock with some great tires.

RAV4 and Mazda 6 are cars......not anything more than cars and nothing in the same class as a LR3 in any sense of class, weight, wheelbase, track, price, etc. My 2013 Explorer rode great in comparison to my LR3, and not anything close to UTILITY. As a matter of fact its a Mustang suspension and engine with an all-wheel drive package; completely different animals all around.

For your knowledge:
RAV4....built off the Corrola (CAR) chassis and Celica (CAR) suspension. (FACT)
Mazda 6....same chassis as the Ford Fusion (CAR) and Mazda 3 (CAR). (FACT)

And thanks for clarifying your modified Jeep still doesn't ride better than a bone stock LR3! Keep preaching brother, we are all listening and slowly converting to your train of thought! If we don't get there soon, please just wait longer! :drool:

Lovely how much "Wikipedia" opinion and knowledge you spit out as most of us laugh now when you post the crazy "****" you post!:wings:

Rav4 on my friend, Rav4 on! :smiley_drive:
 

eloist

Adventurer
Mine feels a little harsher than when I bought it. It's got 88k now, so I imagine the shocks have seen better days, but the ride is still fine with me.

I'm on K02s as well.
I've driven full size broncos with red letter 35s, Cherokees with oem sized K01s, Wranglers with TSL Thornbirds...
Nothing feels as planted and secure as my Rover.
I like to think I don't have unrealistic expectations however :)

It shakes a bit over potholes and things like that, but nowhere near as bad as my 2 Volkswagens, and this truck is 10 years old now.
 

EricTyrrell

Expo God
I'm calling BS on the TJ comparison because my TJ buddies tell me everytime they are in my LR3 how awesome the ride is! I recently did 500 miles in a TJ and it was bone stock and couldnt wait to get back in my LR3. Is that bad? NO, but they do not compare because they are two different vehicles in every fashion. My buddy rode with me from San Diego to Yuma and this was after I installed the KM2s.....he's been a Jeep guy his entire life and loves the fact that we could cruise at 85mph and the ride was comfortable and quiet and non-fatiguing. Can my LR3 compete with his kitted out Jeep on straight-offroad comparison...NO, however, he's a pretty smart man to see what a true SUV looks and feels like bone stock with some great tires.

RAV4 and Mazda 6 are cars......not anything more than cars and nothing in the same class as a LR3 in any sense of class, weight, wheelbase, track, price, etc. My 2013 Explorer rode great in comparison to my LR3, and not anything close to UTILITY. As a matter of fact its a Mustang suspension and engine with an all-wheel drive package; completely different animals all around.

For your knowledge:
RAV4....built off the Corrola (CAR) chassis and Celica (CAR) suspension. (FACT)
Mazda 6....same chassis as the Ford Fusion (CAR) and Mazda 3 (CAR). (FACT)

And thanks for clarifying your modified Jeep still doesn't ride better than a bone stock LR3! Keep preaching brother, we are all listening and slowly converting to your train of thought! If we don't get there soon, please just wait longer! :drool:

Lovely how much "Wikipedia" opinion and knowledge you spit out as most of us laugh now when you post the crazy "****" you post!:wings:

Rav4 on my friend, Rav4 on! :smiley_drive:

Calm down cupcake. Could have saved yourself a lot of e-flapping if you'd read the first sentence. "Compared to any SUV in its class."

Being a joke compared to "SUVs in its class" (high-end SUVs), is bad enough, but more interesting is that it doesn't even compare well to "normal" vehicles, of which I listed several. This really seems to offend you. How dare I compare the vaunted LR3 to such mediocre transportation? lol, it doesn't compare well to anything, luxury or not.

I could have compared it to my coworker's 09 GL450, a direct class competitor, full size suv with air suspension, but I thought people here could read "Compared to any SUV in its class." and not have to spell it out. The GL is in a different league of ride comfort. The LR3 in comparison is a bumpy unsettled mess. Same for my other coworker's LC200, FJ80, Tahoes/Suburbans, Pilots, etc of similar vintage.

colb45 brought up Jeeps, not me. I didn't say they ride better, just not much worse.

Much like OP, I was once puzzled by the embarrassing ride. I test drove several others with the same results.

The LR3 has its strengths. Ride quality isn't one. Try to to get your ego too twisted up over it. You sound like one of these special snowflakes that believes high-pressure in the air-struts causes rough ride at full-height.
 

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