2013 Dodge Ram gets Pentastar V6, 8 speed trans

[Larry]

Who can't? Are we still talking about the stuff in het 80s?

This thread is about 2013 RAM’s no?? That is what I am talking about, late model RAM, GM, Toyota and all the rest that are using encoder motors to shift the transfercase. There isn’t one single manufacturer that isn’t having issues with that system (Slow operations, lack of shifting, getting stuck in 4low, service transfercase lights, etc.) and now Chrysler is going to trust a dial operated transmission shifter? As I mentioned in my last post, medium and heavy duty trucks have been using electric shift automated manuals and Allison automatics for a few years. Problems, problems, problems.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I love how the word "complex" keeps coming up with reference to the new features. This word was used back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s to describe every new electronic gadget that ever went into a car. As time goes on these things seem pretty simple to us.

There really are not "more" computers in the car, just more stuff is controlled by the single computer through the use of a network instead of individual wir to everything. This technology has been in use in cars since the 80s too!

I did not see a single item of technology listed on the new Ram that has not been in use by some other manufacturer for at least a decade now. None of it is exactly ground breaking.

As for these things being in service 40 years from now? Probably. They will be considered simple to fix and most of the "plastic" stuff is usually cosmetic anyway. I had an original plastic dash in my 1974 chevy that still functions fine. The plastics of today are far superior to those.

Thank you

 

[thebrassnuckles]

Damnit!!!!

5 more hp than my 2011.

Bastages.

I haven't had any problems with my fully loaded electronics out the *** 1500 yet. We will see as time goes on.

The new suspension system sounds interesting. I wonder what kind of wrench this will throw at aftermarket suspensions. If they will even be necessary.
After my trip to the SoCal desert rendezvous I definitely want some better suspension and slightly larger tires.

I could probably get away with different shocks, but I want a Kore long travel kit, but it appears to have been pulled from their website.

 

[Saiyan66]

The transmission ratios on the 8 speed transmission look really good for a truck. Lets hope that the shift programming is up to snuff compared to the old auto. With the Hemi V8/8spd combo, I think that could be a definite game changer in the 1/2 ton truck segment. I do agree that the rotary shift dial is a joke though. Obviously some sort of push button system is required for manual shifting when towing, but the dial mechanism just looks cheap. I dont think anyone wants to get into a real truck and have it feel like a Prius when you put it in gear.

 

[Buliwyf]

Do the stalk shifters on most modern trucks still even connect to the transmission with a cable anyways?

Aren't they all electronic with a simple cable for park? So a stalk shifter isn't really much different than a dial? I've only found 2 computers in my truck.

It's not fair to compare to a transfer case. Shifting a manual transfer case, and I have a darn good one, is still a chore to do right. Expecting a simple solenoid to acheve what the human arm needs to do is just plain silly. But an auto transmission allready shifts itsself. Nothing like a transfer case at all.

I'm just glad that Ford and Dodge have learned that the light duty trucks have to be completely different than the HD trucks. A seperate product line, with its own design standards. A compromise truck stinks at both tasks.

 

[Larry]

Do the stalk shifters on most modern trucks still even connect to the transmission with a cable anyways?

Aren't they all electronic with a simple cable for park? So a stalk shifter isn't really much different than a dial? I've only found 2 computers in my truck.

It's not fair to compare to a transfer case. Shifting a manual transfer case, and I have a darn good one, is still a chore to do right. Expecting a simple solenoid to acheve what the human arm needs to do is just plain silly. But an auto transmission allready shifts itsself. Nothing like a transfer case at all.

I'm just glad that Ford and Dodge have learned that the light duty trucks have to be completely different than the HD trucks. A seperate product line, with its own design standards. A compromise truck stinks at both tasks.

Yes, todays automatic transmissions abliet GM, Ford, Chrysler, Allison or Aisin; still have a manual connection to the trans selector shaft via cable. The selector shaft has detents for each gear which you feel as you move the lever. However, gear shift scheduling (clutch engaugement) once the vehicle is rolling is controlled by TCM operated solenoids. It IS fair to compare these new electric shift transmissions to electric shift transfercases as the operating principle is the same. Neither are reliable when a selector shaft is moved by an encoder motor, modules and probably 10lbs of harness to go wrong

 

[zeke2.0]

All the modern trucks are drive by wire now. Both acceleration and shifting. I see Dodge added EPS (Electronic Power Steering). it's on my 2011 F150 and it's significantly better, more responsive than my previous 2006/9 trucks. Makes turning and maneuvering much easier. Let's hope Dodge's implementation is just as good.

 

[haven]

A few specs about the V6 powertrain in the 2013 Dodge Ram 1500

Engine
Pentastar V6
305 hp
269 ft lb
dual cams, variable valve timing
90% of engine torque available between 1800 and 6400 rpm

Transmission
ZF 8HP45, 8 speeds
1st, 4.71:1 -- exceptionally low
2nd, 3.14:1
3rd, 2.10:1
4th, 1.67:1
5th, 1.29:1
6th, 1.00:1
7th, 0.84:1
8th, 0.67:1

Transfer Case
Borg-Warner 44-45
part time two speed
2.64:1 low gear

Final Drive ratio choices
3.21:1
3.55:1
3.92:1
4.10:1

Limited Slip available for rear differential

5 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty

 

[Saiyan66]

Am I the only one who thinks that a normally aspirated V6 in a full size truck is kind of like going backwards? Ford's EcoBoost motor is one thing, but trying to get a full size truck moving with any kind of a load is going to be a chore for that motor even with the help of an 8spd auto. 270ft/lbs is not alot of torque. Cant wait to drive the Hemi version though.

 

[haven]

It's a fuel economy thing. Dodge, like all truck manufacturers, needs to raise the fleet fuel economy. They sell far more 1500 pickups than other models. The 2500 and 3500 are still available, and I'm guessing they will offer smaller diesel engines, like a Cummins 5 liter V8 and the Fiat 3 liter V6, to improve fuel economy in the heavy haulers.

 

[haven]

Dodge has incorporated a transmission heater into the new Ram 1500 pickup with 8 speed transmission. It's composed of a thermostat, electronics and a heat exchanger that uses engine coolant to warm the fluid inside the transmission. Warming up the transmission fluid reduces drag, thus improving fuel economy. Dodge engineers claim they can improve mpg by 1.7% using this technology. The heat exchanger can be used in reverse, too, using engine coolant to reduce the transmission fluid temp, for example, under hard towing.

Read about the heat exchanger here. Scroll down to "heat manager"
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2012/04/2013-ram-1500-cool-tech-deep-dive.html

 

[Saiyan66]

I find the heat exchanger to be a funny idea. Automatic transmissions have NEVER had a problem getting up to temp. It has always been the other way around. It probably only makes a difference in the first 5 minutes that you drive the truck. After that it is likely a wash. They sure are getting pretty nitpicky when they are counting fuel mileage increases down to the 1.5% level. I could fold in the mirrors driving down the highway and make a bigger difference then that.

 

[RoyJ]

Dodge is taking a car engine and sticking it into a truck. I wouldn't touch one with a 20 foot pole

Better stick with a 19' pole then...


What cracks me up is 15 years ago, a 300hp in a truck was a powerhouse. Now, all of a sudden, it's an underpowered "car" engine?

And the whole torque argument might be valid with an old 4 speed - torque was needed to make up for the large gaps in gears. With 8 speeds, you can punch it at ANY road speed, and instantly put the Pentastar near its peak hp rpm, sending massive torque to the REAR AXLE, where it matters.

Just look at the acceleration of the 3.7 V6 in the Ford (NOT ecoboost), it'll put every mid 90s truck to shame save the Lightning.

 

[Saiyan66]

Im not so sure about that. I drove a 99 Tahoe for a while with a 350 Vortec motor in it. It made 255hp and 330ft/lbs of torque through a 4L60E 4spd auto. From about 0-50mph that thing would walk on a new 2011 Chevy 5.3 V8 with 315hp and a 6spd auto because of the torque curve. I was amazed when my buddy and I tested them. Once you get a vehicle that weighs over 5000lbs, horsepower numbers really dont mean much. It is frustrating for me to drive the newer low displacement gas motors with a trailer behind them. They always feel like they are working way too hard and revving to the moon. Another friend has a new 5.0 Ford V8 in his F-150. Empty it feels really strong, but hook a trailer up to it and it sounds and feels overworked.

 

[RoyJ]

What was the weight difference and rear axle ratio? You also have to keep in mind torque management on newer truck purposely tone down off the line torque.

Almost every instrumentation testing of modern, low torque, 6/7/8 spd transmission vehicle beats their older counterpart of similar weight, but lower hp high torque V8. Compare the V6 F150 vs older, 260hp 5.4 Triton; compare an 8 speed 300S vs a Crown Vic / Towncar.

Now "feel" is a completely different topic. As a diesel / big rig fan, I love low rpm torque monsters. But as an engineer I have to admit that 3.6 Pentastar + 8 speed will pass the old 5.2 (or even 5.9) towing up any hill, any speed.