Advice Needed:: Tacoma owner considering a ZR2

Colonal Angus

Adventurer
Keep the Taco and buy a Honda Grom or any 250cc dual sport as a commuter. You can use the Taco as a camp/overland/4x4 vehicle and use the bike as a tender to the 4x4 and have an amazingly fuel efficient mode of transportation for $2,000. Plus, you likely fall in love with two wheel riding so much so that you won’t care what kind of ******** GM or American Toyota pumps out. :p
 
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Halligan

Adventurer
Never owned a mid size truck personally. I've ridden in older Colorado's and Tacoma's and neither really excited me. I agree the interior of GM is cheesy by today's standards but I'm not a fan of Toyota's interior either.

Without question a payed off truck in the condition your's is in makes sense to keep in my book. I paid off my 2010 Ram 2500 after 5 years of ownership and it felt great. Three months later I scratched the Power Wagon itch I had for years and bought a new 2015 Power Wagon. In retrospect I should of bought a Power Wagon in 2010 and I would of saved a ton of money cause I'm still working on paying it off.

For what they charge for a new midsize vehicle why not go with a full size truck? Honestly, if I was in the market today for a truck I'd look at the 2019 Ram Rebel. It's a total redesign with GY Duratrac's, electronic rear locker, and a front bumper that wont hit parking block's. Want to talk interiors, Ram has been kicking butt with interiors and tech since 2014. This new 2019 takes it to an even higher level. The 5.7 Hem/8 speed trans will get respectable MPG's and actually be fun to drive compared to what your used to. Companies like Thuren and Carli make suspension components for 1500 rams if stock isn't good enough. Ram boxes in the bed sides are sweet and I wish my truck had them.

Of course my opinion is just that. If a mid size really fits your lifestyle better than a full size I say hold on to the Yota. In a year or so the new Ford Rangers will be here (Raptor Ranger?) and will be worth a look before you jump into GM's camp. FWIW, my wife has a 2015 Chevy Traverse we bough new and it's a turd. Engine/trans combo sucks, electric steering is funky, in general the vehicle is uninspiring. Thinking about dumping it this summer for something else.
 

Paddy

Adventurer
This coming from the person who has "landcruiser" in his screen name, which of course proves that there is absolutely no bias in his views and statements.




I have actually. You can find a good number of them with high mileage (150k-250k) going for $8k-$9k, which is only a few steps away from scrap yard values.

With the proper maintenance and repairs, the underlying platform is good for many more years of service.

But at that mileage, the inline 6 gasoline (which wasn't exactly problem-free to begin with) is nearing the end of its useful lifespan. Hence why you can find them for such cheap prices. I think the LC-80 with a high-mileage engine would be a prime candidate for an engine swap (GM smallblock, 4.7l Toyota V8, 2.8l Cummins crate engine) for exactly that reason.
You think 8k$ is cheap for a 30 yr old vehicle? That’s about as odd of a statement as scrap value being nearly that much.

I dabbled with Toyota for a few months. Sold it and haven’t regretted it at all. I don’t get the appeal honestly. But lots of people do.
 

dado5

Member
I have been through thinking like this (the original post, not all the other ramblings) many times. The bottom line is any "overland" vehicle you will have is not going to be fuel efficient, esp. once you lift it a little and other items. If you calculate the savings from even 10mpg better fuel efficiency it will take you a long time, if ever to recoup your $13k. You like your toyota so keep it. I bought a smaller fuel efficient daily driver and drive my truck when I want. For $10k you can get a great little fuel efficient car and save the daily wear and tear on your truck. just my 2 cents.
 

ExplorerTom

Explorer
You think 8k$ is cheap for a 30 yr old vehicle? That’s about as odd of a statement as scrap value being nearly that much.

I'd scrap my Expedition TODAY if that were true.

Drop a ZERO off each of those and you're in the hunt (for scrap value): $800-$900. And even then, that's a couple hundred high.
 

Clutch

<---Pass
I'd scrap my Expedition TODAY if that were true.

Drop a ZERO off each of those and you're in the hunt (for scrap value): $800-$900. And even then, that's a couple hundred high.

Buddy of mine just scrapped his Jeep XJ after his son rolled it. $300

I have been through thinking like this (the original post, not all the other ramblings) many times. The bottom line is any "overland" vehicle you will have is not going to be fuel efficient, esp. once you lift it a little and other items. If you calculate the savings from even 10mpg better fuel efficiency it will take you a long time, if ever to recoup your $13k. You like your toyota so keep it. I bought a smaller fuel efficient daily driver and drive my truck when I want. For $10k you can get a great little fuel efficient car and save the daily wear and tear on your truck. just my 2 cents.

OP has long trips coming up, why he wants a little better mileage...so a cheap DD is really isn't the answer. He posted in the Toyota section, given the places he has to drive, guessing it is going to cost him roughly $2000 (and that is a little high) in fuel in what he already has.

Think it comes down to the lure of a vehicle that gets a little better mileage over what we already have, believing we are going to save money (which we wont...never works out)...that and the case of the "want-sees". Classic case of consumerism boredom...it is what drives most of our economy. "Oh look! Shiny!" ;) :D
 
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DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I have been through thinking like this (the original post, not all the other ramblings) many times. The bottom line is any "overland" vehicle you will have is not going to be fuel efficient, esp. once you lift it a little and other items. If you calculate the savings from even 10mpg better fuel efficiency it will take you a long time, if ever to recoup your $13k. You like your toyota so keep it. I bought a smaller fuel efficient daily driver and drive my truck when I want. For $10k you can get a great little fuel efficient car and save the daily wear and tear on your truck. just my 2 cents.
There are justifications for the cost of a more fuel efficient vehicle that can't be calculated on straight dollar cost. And fuel efficiency is integral with overlanding, you can't just pop into a service station in the backcountry so range is paramount. This is why I want a diesel, to reduce and probably eliminate the necessity to carry jerry cans and to increase the economy off road. It's not crucial that I can go 600 miles on Interstate but I would very much prefer not to get 5 MPG in low range.
 

upcruiser

Perpetual Transient
Gotta love all the arm chair quarter backing that goes on in these threads. I am not here to do that but I will give some experience I have had regarding the virtues of the baby Duramax. We bought an LT trimmed crew cab long bed as a do everything vehicle to replace my wife's Outback. She wanted a Tacoma and we checked those out too but we came away more impressed by the Colorado for a bunch of the reasons previously posted. The diesel is great, we get 30-32mpg on the two lane highways around our area easily, about 23 in town. Last month we saw 37.5mpg on a 100 mile stretch with my wife driving, no lie. That was exceptional and out of the ordinary. The ride is tight, the comfort is good, the ergonomics, and driving dynamics better than the Tacoma. We have a 3/4 ton Suburban we bought to tow our 23' camper that we use for mountain bike trips. We started pulling it with the Colorado and have been stoked. Where as the Burb wouldn't see 10mpg with the camper, we were getting 15-16 with the Colorado liadecwith our family of four, bikes and gears and a high profile camper in tow. On top of that, the Duramax tows easier than the 6.0 in the Suburban. They both produce the same peak torque but the Suburban produces the 370 at 4,000 Rpms where as the Colorado at 2k. The Colorado just cruised along seemingly with less drama or downshifts and the exhaust brake is awesome too for long grades. It is a great workhorse of a truck. We initially had some emissions related issues with the NOx sensors but were replaced with an updated version and have had no issues since. The early trucks had issues with those sensors which seem to be more or less addressed now. The engine in these is not a new design but has been in service for years and upgraded along the way. What is new is the emissions systems used in the states. I did a trip across the Atacama desert of Chile with a Chevy Luv with an earlier version of this engine about 10 years ago and lived it then so was pretty stoked to see them bring this to the US. The Holden version of this current truck has been available in other markets prior to the US arrival and you see them in use in NewZealand and Australia pretty frequently. An interesting aside, the Duramax isn't really pokey, it feels quite powerful, at half throttle, problem is if you mat it, the transmission programming takes it up way beyond where the torque falls off. Half throttle actually gives way more thrust because the shift points are lower, essentially short shifting, kind of bizarre but makes for effortless, quiet passing. I respect the ZR2 but haven't driven one yet. As an out of the box good at everything offroad vehicle it's hard to beat but I think a long bed Z71 or LT might be better suited for long distance travel due to the better payload and towing capacities as well as the bed length/cab length options. I personally find pickups with 5 foot beds pretty useless. Additionally, the auto locker on these things seems to work pretty well and smoothly versus say the G80 in our 2500 Suburban which is rather abrupt in engagement and requires a bit of an aggressive driving technique to get it to engage. Overall I think this truck is the most useful all around vehicle you can get in NA. Best overland rig? Probably not if you are looking to travel internationally, no ULSD vehicle is as ultra low sulfur diesel isn't available in many countries yet. One other unmentioned point here, price. Try negotiating with a Toyota dealer on a Tacoma. You can get a smoking deal on a Colorado. Ours retailed for 41k and we got our Duramax for 10k off plus zero percent for 5 years, plus they threw in weather tech floor mats and some other stuff. So from a value perspective it wasn't even a contest. The Tacoma is a great vehicle, a safe choice for sure and I am not bashing it. I like Toyotas, I have had a Land Cruiser continuously for the past 21 years, sometimes several along with Tundras and an FJ Cruiser. I was an early member of Land Cruiser forums from the early days, Spector Offroad forum which basically migrated into IH8 Mud. Any brand specific forum has so much insestous parting in the back that you get a bit of a false sense of reality. Yes Toyota has had great build quality and reliability over the years but it all breaks. I have had mechanical failures and been stranded at least once in all three Land Cruisers I have owned, especially my 80 series that I have had over 15 years now. Toyota has history of making long running stuff, but so has Chevy. Look at the mileage that Suburbans rack up, and usually poorly taken care of, suddenly all those high mileage Land Cruisers don't look so unique. So, before everyone takes another pull from the Kool Aid, take a step back and realize perception isn't always what it seems. And, dear Toyota, myself and other Toyota enthusiasts have been begging you for years to bring a diesel small truck or Land Cruiser to the states for years. Many of us have even written you letters, for which you claim there is no demand or market.... bravo to GM to take a risk and do just that, bring in one f their foreign market diesels. I vote with my dollars. I live my Land Cruiser but I give props where it is due. Maybe my tune will change in 100,000 mikes but we will see. Friends with the previous model Colorado as unloved as it seems to be have had good reliability with them. These newer ones are built to a much higher standard it feels. So yeah, that's been my take. Looking forward to some upcoming, growing aftermarket options like the AEV kit for when we start using this truck for remote travel more.
 

Dalko43

Explorer
Correct I have bias actually strong(y) but I have experience to back it up, you? :unsure: Read my sig;)

Bias - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

It doesn't matter if you think you have the experience to back it up...bias clouds judgement. You make sarcastic cracks about GM products and you freely admit that you have bias. I think the OP has more than enough context to decide for himself whether or not your "experience" is worth his consideration.

Comments from people like @upcruiser are far more substantive and relevant for the OP's consideration. The whole "domestic vehicles suck, Toyota vehicles rule" mindset is more than a little dated at this point.


You think 8k$ is cheap for a 30 yr old vehicle? That’s about as odd of a statement as scrap value being nearly that much.

Considering that the diesel imports (of comparable age) are going for 2x-3x that amount, yeah, I'd say $8k is cheap for a LC.


I'd scrap my Expedition TODAY if that were true.

Drop a ZERO off each of those and you're in the hunt (for scrap value): $800-$900. And even then, that's a couple hundred high.

Go check out sites that sell used LC parts (Cruiser Yard is one such site). So long as the parts are in semi-usable condition, I could see a seller getting several thousand $ for parts and components.
 
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Tex68w

Beach Bum
The issue with basing your purchase off of a few reviews here or anywhere else on the internet is that it is a relatively small sample size. Every make and model will have the homers singing it's praises while at the same time there will be owners cursing its name. I owned a Saab 93 Aero in the mid 2000's that I absolutely loved, I had little to no issues with it, but that didn't change the fact that most were maintenance nightmares and their resale value plummeted almost as badly as most european cars.

I am sure that the Colorado can be a quality truck that supports the overland lifestyle that the OP seeks, but from a financial standpoint it makes zero sense for him to make the switch. From a reliability and resale standpoint it makes less than zero sense for him to make the switch. I doubt that the Colorado will ever come even remotely close to the fame, reliability, resale, aftermarket, etc. that the Tacoma encompasses in this day and age, but it doesn't mean that it can't be a viable option.

In all honesty I foresee the new Ford Ranger trouncing the Colorado within the first few years of it's return as well.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
Bias - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.
It's good to be open minded and I agree that Toyota has slipped and GM seems to be improving. But stereotypes are often based in some history and you own a 4Runner for the same reason lots of us are Toyota fanboys. It's pretty much a fact that the period from the 1970s to probably around 2000 they *were* better built. Some say indestructible. Of course this isn't true but the FJ40 and Hilux and all of that are pretty legendary. It's not good for Toyota to rest on those laurels as they seem to, but it was an earned reputation anyway.
Comments from people like @upcruiser are far more substantive and relevant for the OP's consideration. The whole "domestic vehicles suck, Toyota vehicles rule" mindset is more than a little dated at this point.
Kristian is a stalwart but so is @LandCruiserPhil. He's got nothing prove, he's done more for TLCA and Toyota enthusiasts over years than likely anyone in this thread. He's earned his bias if you ask me (and no one did).
 

Dalko43

Explorer
I am sure that the Colorado can be a quality truck that supports the overland lifestyle that the OP seeks, but from a financial standpoint it makes zero sense for him to make the switch. From a reliability and resale standpoint it makes less than zero sense for him to make the switch. I doubt that the Colorado will ever come even remotely close to the fame, reliability, resale, aftermarket, etc. that the Tacoma encompasses in this day and age, but it doesn't mean that it can't be a viable option.

In all honesty I foresee the new Ford Ranger trouncing the Colorado within the first few years of it's return as well.

I get the financial argument that has been made against the OP's purchase of the Colorado (I even agree with that argument).

The argument that Colorado lacks the reliability, fame, resale and aftermarket of the comparable trucks is still just speculation. As is the the idea that Ford is going to "trounce" it. The Colorado is still new. So despite many people's intentions to trash its reputation (not saying you're one of them @Tex68w) we really don't have the long term data to make that kind of judgement.

So far, the sales #'s certainly demonstrate that there is a big consumer demand for this truck. Does that necessarily mean the Colorado will have the same market reputation and value as the Tacoma and Ranger 10 years down the road? No. Heck, we don't even know for sure if the Tacoma will still be dominant in the mid-sized market or if the Ranger will be a success. We'll just have to wait and see.

It's good to be open minded and I agree that Toyota has slipped and GM seems to be improving. But stereotypes are often based in some history and you own a 4Runner for the same reason lots of us are Toyota fanboys.

Stereotypes are also often based on inaccurate perceptions and emotions (and I think there are enough historical examples of that for you to know what I'm getting at). Bias should not be the foundation from which we judge something. I understand that everyone is inherently biased to some degree, but I make a point of at least trying to overcome those biases in developing an objective and semi-rational understanding.

I do own a 4runner, and I'm glad that I do. And I do have an affinity for the Toyota brand. But I am looking at domestic brands (in addition to Toyota) for my next purchase because I see that they are putting out vehicles of nearly equal quality.
 
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Etoimos

Observer
I've been looking at both the Taco and the ZR2 diesel and was starting to lean towards the ZR2. Then I started running the gas numbers on it. After paying the $3k premium for the diesel, factoring in the local difference in gas and diesel prices, the amount of time it would take to recoup the diesel premium was in the decades time frame. At that point, the only advantage the diesel had for me was the extended range (still a viable advantage).

As of now, I'm still driving my Jeep.
 

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