Another Suspension Question

[ridgeback]

First post after a bunch of very informative research on here.
I'm setting up my FJ for general overland/offroad use in Central Africa. I'll be there for a few years so I'm mostly concerned with durability and am stuck on the suspension mods. I'm fairly new to this so maybe this is a dumb question but... do the resi shocks pose more of a an issue with durability as they're are just more parts involved? I was pretty set on King coilovers with reservoirs but am now thinking I should just go more basic. Is my concern unfounded? I wont be loading the FJ down as much as some - just bumpers, 285s, winch, and some jerry cans for fuel, etc.
Thanks for any thoughts/suggestions.

 

[DiploStrat]

Where in Central Africa

In most of Africa (outside of the CAR and a few other places), the real issue is thousands of miles of washboard road. The ticket for washboard is softer springs and bigger shocks. So, I would go with external reservoir shocks if they are available for your vehicle. (There is limited washboard in the CAR because there is so little traffic; it is simply too dangerous. It is heavy truck traffic that makes the worst washboard.)

 

[Stumpalump]

Resivior is for heat dissipation. If you get regular shocks hot enough to need them then you need full heim joint suspension anyway. If you really do run hours of hard washboard at speed then stop and feel your shocks. If they burn your hand they are getting hot. I run resivior King coil-overs on the the desert buggy. They run cold to just above ambient. Save the resivior for the long races. You will never beat your rig hard enough to need them. If you run a little Bilstein 5100 then the resivior is OK but on a King you will break your rig and your body long before that shock gets hot enough to need a resivior.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

I would go with a simpler, non- rebuildable shock personally. From my experience, and everything I have read, a rebuildable shock will need to be rebuilt before a throw away shock will need to be replaced. Are you really going to be cycling the shock often enough to overheat it? I guess its possible, but I'd rather slow down anyways.

 

[DiploStrat]

... Are you really going to be cycling the shock often enough to overheat it? I guess its possible, but I'd rather slow down anyways.

In Africa, yes. In the US, no.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

In Africa, yes. In the US, no.

There are plenty of places out west that eat up shocks, take a trip out here in the summer and you will quickly find what 100+ degree heat and rutted out roads will do to a lesser shock.

To the OP, have you looked into the OME setup for your FJ?

 

[DiploStrat]

There are plenty of places out west that eat up shocks, take a trip out here in the summer and you will quickly find what 100+ degree heat and rutted out roads will do to a lesser shock.

To the OP, have you looked into the OME setup for your FJ?

Actually, I have. And I have external reservoir shocks. There are indeed some rough trails in the American West, but, to the original question, the American West is simply too small to compare with the scale of Central Africa, especially not if you have to cross the Sahara or come up from the south to get there.

There are other differences:

-- In the American West most roads are paved and you have to look for dirt to drive. While it has gotten better over the years that I have lived there, in much of Central Africa there simply are no paved roads - you drive on dirt all day for weeks.
-- Ruts are not washboard (tôle ondulé, corrugations, etc.). The dynamics for the suspension are different.

One tends to drive slowly on a trail and faster on the highway. OME gear might be a very good idea, if only because Australia has lots of washboard and the Australians tend to tune their suspensions for it. (Just as Americans tend to tune for rock crawling.)

 

[plainjaneFJC]

There are tons of POS vehicles in Africa with worn out shocks and bald tires. I would get something that is easily replaceable. OME probably would be top of my list.

 

[DiploStrat]

Depends on What You Are Trying to Do

Bald tires and blown shocks? Nah!

But methinks that ridgeback is trying to avoid that sort of thing! And while I agree on the OME stuff, you must remember that you will NEVER find OME spares in Central Africa. (Of course, you won't find FJ Curiser spares either.)

 

[ridgeback]

Thanks for all the replies. Much appreciated.
Jeep-N-Montero - I have looked at the latest OME offering (BP-51s) and they look good.
DiploStrat - I agree on the availability of spares. Something goes down and I'm probably looking at 3 weeks min. for replacement. Hence my concern about durability. Classic photo by the way...

Sounds like you guys can all agree that OME is a good place to start, though.

 

[rayra]

I would suggest finding / making room to pack a spare front and rear shock IN the vehicle and keeping another of each in your base of operations. Just to cut down that shipping / import time. You'll likely need them anyway, and it's a small cost compared to the inconvenience of not having them at hand.

 

[Mundo4x4Casa]

My first choice in any country, if you are not a savvy mechanic yourself, is to have a vehicle that can be worked on in that country by someone who knows that vehicle, and spare parts can be had with the least amount of time lag. This usually means drive what the locals drive and make the fewest changes from stock as you can. Every change away from stock parts can and often does result in a more fun but less reliable vehicle, in the long run. This has taken me half a century to fully understand. During that time I keep trying to 'say it isn't so' by being on a constant, 'build' of some kind or another on one of the 14-4WD's I've owned. But all the builds had an eye on conditions, parts and access to repair that were available in the western U.S.
jefe

 

[DiploStrat]

...
DiploStrat - I agree on the availability of spares. Something goes down and I'm probably looking at 3 weeks min. for replacement. Hence my concern about durability. Classic photo by the way...

I have no personal experience with the FJ Cruiser or OME products. I do have a prejudice in favor of Australian suspension products because I am familiar with road conditions in Australia. And I am very familiar with road conditions in Central and other parts of Africa based on living there for over a decade over the course of almost 40 years. If you are going to run an exotic vehicle for several years:

-- Make sure you have a way to replenish your consumables, e.g. tires, belts, hoses, spark plugs (leaded gasoline), filters, brake pads, etc. This may mean packing them in your initial shipment, resupply shipments, or a deal with a local dealer/merchant. The latter are often very pricey.
-- Make sure you have any exotic tools you need, for example, a Dana 44 axle requires a special spanner. (Don't ask how I learned this.)
-- Make sure you have the appropriate manuals, in the local language, if not English.
-- While a US FJ Cruiser is not the same as a foreign vehicle, it is useful to know your vehicle's paternity, in this case, the Toyota Prado. Sometimes you get lucky, like the time I put a South African pickup windshield in my Blazer.

Beyond that, it is often very easy to find good mechanics and even well equipped shops for alignments, etc., in capital cities. (Would be useful to know where you are going.)

The good news is that engine and transmission internals are usually not an issue, it is more often peripheral systems that fail. I always chuckle at the "gotta have a Caterpillar/Cummins/etc. engine for world wide service." Neither of those engines is very likely to fail unless you feed it water, see the point about filters.

If you want the most common vehicle in the dirt road world, get a naturally aspirated diesel Toyota Land Cruiser, with manual transmission, and split rims and 7.50x16 tires.

Finally, a thought about your original question. After my first two years in Africa, which included crossing the Sahara on the Agadez/Tamanrraset route, I had a chat with Lonnie Woods. At the time, Lonnie Woods had a company called Desert Vehicles and he was selling his "Rough Country" suspension for Blazer. He chided me for fooling around with helper springs and dual shocks and urged me not to "Put a bandaid on a broken leg." My next Blazer, I took his advice and installed his complete suspension kit. Had the truck for 14 years. Replaced a few shocks, but it was the best handling dirt road vehicle I have owned. Were I thee, I would take a good look at a full OME suspension. Depending on where you are going, you probably will be carrying a bit of food, fuel, and water.

And do remember, "Softly, softly, catch monkey; quick, quick, trousers broke." Especially in the rains.

Free advice is worth what you pay for it.

Best wishes.

 

[cummins-overlander]

Your suspension is going to depend entirely on how you drive, how good of a ride you want, your budget, if you are willing-able-equipped to do work yourself, and availability of parts. I have ridden in some wild rigs suspended by serious King suspension, and I have to say that you have no idea what the American West is like. Mountains, forest, rocks, whoops, ruts, washboard, dead-smooth. The testing locations for almost all Trophy Trucks are both 1.5 hours and 4 hours from me right now. I have gone 90mph through 3-foot whoops out here. The race trucks out here go faster. Also, it would be a good idea to take this question away from this forum and talk to an Engineer at King and an Engineer at OME. Those really will be the two best choices, you are on track there. Either way for sure, get new springs as more suspension travel will really help your ride and will save your shocks from having to work so hard. I know that King has a European office, and they do rally raid support in addition to all the racing they do here in the US, they are out there like anyone else.

For sure, as was stated earlier, if you are looking at a lot of rutted roads, you need a serious shock or you need to go slow. I had an Engineer from King Shocks ride in my truck with me last weekend to set up my suspension. I have a 2011 Ram Power Wagon, an American 3/4-ton truck that grosses 7500lbs currently. I have Bilstein 5100's currently, and blow through their valving right off the bat off road. They are way too soft. I also heat them to the point you cannot touch them well within 5 minutes of driving on a trail. We have to go a minimum of King 2.5 with reservoir to get enough oil volume and heat dissipation for this rig. I have driven my friends FJ Cruiser quite a bit and know that they are much lighter, but are still a moderately heavy rig for their size. If you want to be able to drive at a moderate and safe pace over rutted roads, you need a real shock. Those Nitrochargers are either a monotube or twin-tube design and are not going to have nearly enough volume to soak up the heat - their initial valving is going to be long gone within 10 minutes on a rough road, and you are going to be hitting bump stops. If those Nitrochargers do not have an internal floating piston (I have never seen a monotube or twin-tube shock that does), you will lose your valving immediately when you get going fast or hard, even on washboard, as the internal nitrogen charge mixes with the oil and cavitates, dropping the viscosity passing through the valving by quite a bit.

On the availability and survivability side: When a reservoir shock goes bad, what happens is that the oil leaks past the shaft seal. Having a reservoir and a gas charge separated by a floating internal piston means that you lose oil only, not your nitrogen charge. Having the large diameter shock and reservoir means you can lose a lot of oil before you have to fix it. This gives you time to prepare for repairs. You can also rebuild these shocks, even on the trail, so long as you can get them out which is the harder part since you have coilovers. You need a clean environment. You can carry new shaft seals and replacement fork oil with you. Lifespan of the shocks will depend heavily on how hard you run them.

With a monotube or twin-tube shock, when the shock starts going bad you have time to catch it as well, but a lot of the time it goes bad without showing an oil leak, or much of one anyway. When these go bad, throw them in the trash and replace them. The advantage to these shocks is that if you get a bad stone strike on the shaft, you just buy a new one. On the reservoir shocks, you are putting a new shaft in. Cost-wise the new shaft is actually just a little more than what a new monotube shock is, so it's not a big deal.

One big advantage of reservoir shocks that isn't used often is the nitrogen pressure. You can change the ride quality of your shock a lot by just adjusting the nitrogen pressure inside. Obviously you won't do this out in the boonies, but you can use it as a method to fine tune your suspension before heading out on your travels. If you want as well, you can add Internal Bypass and compression adjusters if you get King, Fox or Bilstein reservoir shocks.

There is more to say but my brain is turning off. I hope this helped Let me know if you have questions or ideas.

Marcus

 

[tommudd]

Lots of great advice to OP.
My wife is from Tanzania and my In-Laws live on the slopes of Kilimanjaro. She has lived in Dodoma, Arusha and Tanga areas, lots of roads that some here would think they were offroading!
I know all to well about the wash board roads and how they eat stock suspensions in no time.
Like has been mentioned depending on the area/ country you'll be in , try to find what the locals drive / what they use . Same way with tires ( brand / tread ) they know what works best from years of experience and also what they can get without ordering from another country.
From 08 to 10 replaced the rear shocks on our Toyota we have over there 2 times ( stock shocks) . Moved up to OME suspension and haven't touched them since.
Make sure you take a good set of basic tools with you as well. Locals love it when I need something done that I can't handle or don't have time cause I let them borrow my tools.