Assessment of 5th Gen 4Runner

[Dalko43]

So I've browsed the web for articles and reviews on the latest generation of toyota 4runner. Generally speaking, most of the reviews have been positive.

There were a few who have criticized the 4Runner for a 'less refined' interior and for having perceived handling deficiencies due to its body-on-frame construction....my thoughts on that are: if you want interior refinement and a smooth/sporty ride, you should buy trendy crossover (of which there are dozens). The 4Runner is one of the last remaining mid-sized body-on-frame SUV's with amazing off-road performance (nissan xterra is the only other mid-sized I can think of). The engine seems decent enough given its weight (270HP with 278LB-FT). Again certain people complained on that there was no V8 option or that the fuel economy was mediocre or that the engine wasn't powerful enough. A lot of these naysayers seem to be people who never really stray from the asphalt...they don't understand how torque is more important than outright power in most off-road situations, they don't get that the 4runner's 17/22 mpg is actually fairly decent compared to other off-road offerings.

There is however one point of agreement that i share with these critics on the newest generation of 4runner...not much has changed from the previous generation. Yes this new model has a bit more HP, slightly more torque and some added features which enhance off-road performance (KDSS, crawl control, ATRAC, ect.). But Toyota has maintained the basic recipe: 4wd, body-on-frame, torquey 4.0L V6, utility over luxury.

My question to the toyota owners on this forum:
Does it make sense to buy a new or used 4runner at top $ (specifically the trail edition) given that it has seen only mild upgrades from its previous generation? Or should I forgo the newest gadgets and buy an older generation 4Runner or Xterra for much less.
Does anyone think that toyota is working on making a totally different model of 4runner for the next generation?
Does anyone think there will be another generation of the 4Runner, given the decline in popularity of body-on-frame?

There is already talk that Nissan will discontinue its Xterra line due to decreasing sales. Is toyota going to follow suite?

I am essentially at a cross-roads: I am looking at spending $30k-$34k on a used 2011-2013 4Runner Trail or
$20k-$24k on a used 2011-2013 Nissan Xterra Pro-4x.

I know the 4Runner offers a few distinct advantages over the Xterra (holds its value better, more space and carrying capacity, better rear suspension, more advanced traction and off-road systems). But at their essence, they are both the same type of vehicles: old-school, body-on-frame, 4.0L V6 torquey engines, with an emphasis on off-road utility over refinement.

Is the new 4runner really worth the extra $8k-$10k over the Xterra? Not looking to start a vehicle fanboy war here; I am just trying to get opinions on what the current 4runner offers.

 

[AxleIke]

I can't comment on future 4runners/sticking with body on frame.

I'm a bit uncertain about what you are actually asking: at first it seemed as if you were asking about buying an older generation 4runner vs the new generation, vs brand new from the dealer, but at the end, it sounds like you are down to a Trail Edition and the Xterra.

I have no experience with the Xterra, or any Nissan. If, however, you are debating between an older 4runner, and a new one, I have seen this issue discussed a lot, and debated it a bunch myself.

First of all, to address your question about the added cost for the Toyota, I believe there is a Toyota Tax. Its most apparent on used Tacomas, but even the new 4runners have it. Toyota is capitalizing on the perceived reputation of reliability and ruggedness that they built from the 60's through the 80s, and, largely, have maintained through the 90's and 2000's. In my mind, no, its not worth the extra money, but I would still buy a Trail Edition 4Runner over any other model or brand because I have the Toyota Owner pink glasses and see rosy goodness whenever I think Toyota. Toyota is still a reliable (mostly) car company, but what made them great in the 80's, was that they were reliable, and CHEAP. They didn't cost much, and it showed (crappy plastic interior, spot welded panels that rusted if you look at them wrong). But, they'd just keep running. Now, in my mind, they are still cheap on the inside (all plastic dash, clips and tabs instead of screws so the interior starts rattling after a month, underwhelming seats, etc...), but they cost a LOT. And, while they are reliable and rugged, they have not made much progress in getting a more efficient, more powerful drivetrain built, and 30-40k for a truck that has 12+ year old technology under the hood is, in my book, a bit much. But, like I said, they have made a believer out of me (but not a zealot), and I'd buy a new one given the choice.

As far as the differences between an older 4runner and a newer one, it really depends on what you get. A very good friend of mine recently bought a 2015 4Runner, and we talked a bunch about this before he purchased.

In that discussion, it came down to 2 options, and which one you chose depended on what you consider more expensive: shelling out money or shelling out time/hassle factor. A new truck is capable out of the box with factory warranty and has the new car smell. It hasn't had a previous owner, so you know its history. An older truck is much less expensive, but you have to work on it. It can be as capable, or more, than the new one, but you have to hassle with it. It might run for 10 years /100,000 miles trouble free, or it could be a rotten tomato.

My friend and I were comparing out two 4Runners. A 1999 or 2000 4runner, and a 2015. For 15k or less, including purchase price, I can have a used truck from the late 90's, with around 200,000 miles, with every offroad goody available to it, is a lot more capable than a stock trail edition, and costs half as much. BUT, its an old truck, and has zero warranty. Every modification has to be done by me, and modifications don't always work out exactly as planned. Sometimes they can result it a LOT of hassle. The new truck can also be modified, but thats just money on top of the purchase price, which is already high, in my book. We kept our discussion to the stock 2015 as a reference point, and put emphasis on making the older truck as capable as the new one (dual transfercases instead of crawl control, a front locker instead of A-Track, a supercharger to offset power, etc...)

A lot also depends on your background. I came from a late 80s 4runner with a 4 cylinder engine. So, having a V6 and a supercharger putting out 220-240 hp was HUGE power for me. If you are used to German or even domestic V8's, any generation 4runner is going to seem gutless. If you can live with power in the 200's, the 4runner line has a lot to offer, though you may need to modify the older stuff more.

Lastly, I'd ask about intended use. Everyone is different, but I can say I'd be hesitant to take a brand new truck, capable or not, and dent/scratch/pinstripe it out in the woods. A 10-15 year old truck though? Eh, whats the harm?

My buddy wanted the new safety features, the larger cabin, and the satisfaction of having a new vehicle. He is very happy with his choice.

Hopefully someone else will chime in with direct Xterra/4runner differences. The only one I know of specifically is that the Xterra is a lot smaller inside, so large family outings could be pretty cramped.

 

[Dalko43]

Thanks. That was very helpful. And I realize my questions were somewhat open-ended. I'm really just trying to get honest feedback on the pro's to owning a brand new or slightly used 5th gen toyota 4runner.

I think you and I both acknowledge that there are older Toyota models and Nissan Xterra's (when properly modified) which are capable of offering comparable performance to the current 4runner for a much lower price tag....the obvious caveat to that is that the older vehicles will potentially require much more time and $ in terms of maintenance and repair.

 

[v_man]

I think you need to identify what your needs are from the vehicle . Are you a weekend explorer who will also daily drive the truck ? Are you turning it into a doobied up Expo® rig with many expensive and heavy add ons? Do you plan to keep it for years and years ?

Personally I'm from the camp that believes a new vehicle is one of the worst investments you can make . Depreciation , insurance costs , worrying about somebody dinging it with a shopping cart etc. I say get the cheapest functional vehicle that you feel is reliable, covers your needs , and that you enjoy driving . I'd be looking at late 3rd or early 4th gen 4runner, thereby staying away from the "am I going to spend 24k or 32k on this vehicle" debate .

 

[Tinfish]

The lack of a manual transmission option made the 4Runner a non-option for me, plus it was more than I was willing to spend. I'm happy with my Xterra but I don't need a lot of refinement; the 4Runner I looked at was like a Cadillac in comparison. My Xterra reminds me more of the 1980s 4Runner I used to own than it does the new 4Runner, very much purpose-built and not much in the way of frills. I know people do take the newest 4Runner off road, but I doubt that is more than a tiny percentage of buyers.

 

[Dalko43]

I think you need to identify what your needs are from the vehicle . Are you a weekend explorer who will also daily drive the truck ? Are you turning it into a doobied up Expo® rig with many expensive and heavy add ons? Do you plan to keep it for years and years ?
Personally I'm from the camp that believes a new vehicle is one of the worst investments you can make . Depreciation , insurance costs , worrying about somebody dinging it with a shopping cart etc. I say get the cheapest functional vehicle that you feel is reliable, covers your needs , and that you enjoy driving . I'd be looking at late 3rd or early 4th gen 4runner, thereby staying away from the "am I going to spend 24k or 32k on this vehicle" debate .

You bring up good points. To give a little bit of context:
-this vehicle will serve as both a daily driver and a weekend explorer (trails/roads off the beaten path, no hardcore rock-crawling)
-I need to be able to carry a big dog and a few people, in addition to camping gear in the back.
-this is intended to be a long-term buy...I'd like to get at least 8-10 years of use out of this

By nature, I am a thrifty person. The idea of buying a used 4th gen 4Runner or used Xterra and saving quite a bit of money appeals to me. But this is also going to be only car for the next part of my life. So buying something used and old now will only be much more worn out and older 8-10 years from now.

The only reason I'm not 100% sold on the Xterra:
-rear leaf springs will sag given time and I know I'll need to spend $ and time to fix/replace them
-middle seats aren't very spacious
-I've heard of issues with the front diff during heavy off-roading
-less gross weight capacity due to leaf spring setup
-very spartan interior, even compared to a 4runner which has Entune infotainment, back-up camera, nicer looks (in my opinion)
-Also due to lower mpg and smaller fuel tank, Xterra has a shorter driving range than the 4runner.
-doesn't have the toyota pedigree and supposed reliability (which as someone noted earlier may be more of a perception thing than a reality)

The new 4runner addresses all of those issues but with quite a boost in the price.

 

[Tinfish]

The Toyota tax is a real thing. My current Tacoma cost more than it would have if it was sold by ford or Chevy, but at least some of that hopefully comes back when you sell it. I'd agree that Toyota is to some extent riding on its old reputation and I have no illusion that my Tacoma will survive like the old trucks did.

 

[duckhunter71]

I can attest for the Xterra. I bought a 2010 Off Road new back in 2009. They're not as cramped as you fear. I think the biggest difference is noticed in the cargo hold. You get a lot more headroom in a Xterra than a 4Runner which I consider a plus. The Nissan 4.0 is a sweet, sweet engine that will get you where you want to go fairly quickly and will sound great doing it. The only true weak point is the rear suspension, as you pointed out. It was ultimately the reason I got rid of mine, but if I had been aware at the relatively affordable aftermarket fixes, I would have kept it. That was before I discovered this world of expedition travel and vehicle modification. Visit the Nissan section or thenewx.org and you will see exactly how capable they are.

That being said, if given the choice today buying new, I would choose a new 4Runner Trail. But if you are sticking to a budget, by all means give the Xterra a shot! I think you'd like it.

 

[Dalko43]

Feedback on this has been awesome so far.

A quick question on 4runner engine bays:



This is a pic of a 4runner trail's engine bay that is going for an ok price. I know it is impossible to accurately diagnose what may have caused the gray discoloration on the air intake, but at the very least, does anyone suspect that to have resulted from either water damage or smoke?

It just looks out of place, especially for a low-mileage vehicle.

Also the tires look very shot and the wheel wells look very dirty and the exterior black trim has very bad road rash. It think who ever had this car last drove it hard.

Feedback on this would be much appreciated.

 

[Riddle]

It must just be the material itself because the intake my 2010 looks that same way....

 

[zidaro]

it could just be from some road treatment. aka salt or other. but the rest of the engine bay looks very cleaned.

dirty parts are good, you can see what its been in. wheel wells are supposed to be dirty.
i like to crawl under and see whats been abused. big scrapes, gouges, pitted metal- thats indications of a poor environment or abuse. Water damage, thats a tough one. do a vin check.

I wish our '10 runner was v8. carries itself and a few people just fine, loaded or towing it lacks umph! Otherwise, Toyota wins every time.