Bought a Black 2005 GX470 with KDSS last night. Now what? :)

[Riflman]

I sold my beloved Disco 2 last September back in Vancouver before moving to Cali. It was probably the most heavily modded truck that I personally ever saw. I loved it to death. Put a new motor in it at a cost of $11,000 only 50k km's before selling it. I was going to build another one with a CA 2004 truck, but decided with all the motor issues and lack of decent alternatives, I would look at LR3's. Then I ran into threads about the GX470 builds.

Last night I walked away from a gorgeous black LR3 loaded with locking rear diff. It had 75k miles and was a 2007 for $16,900. I ended up buying a 2005 GX470 with 100,000 miles for much more money. It was also mint though, has KDSS and had the 90k mile service done. I also bought a 24 month/24k mile warranty from the dealer. I know mods might screw up my warranty, but I figured it was worth a try and hopefully I won't need it. I certainly used the one on my Disco, and luckily, LR honored the warranty despite extensive mods, since as they said, it's meant to be taken off road. I maxed out the cash value of the warranty on that truck. My hope is that I will not have the same issues with the GX.

So....

Where do I start? I want to do this in stages. My first step is to get the truck to look like this:

 

[Colonal Angus]

Nice...I look forward to the build. I think you'll enjoy the reliability and lack of dealer visits (knock on wood).

 

[TexGX]

Congratulations. Here in the states it's hard to find a KDSS model so that is a great way to start. I would suggest looking up a few of the build treads here and decide what direction you want to go. The biggest issue for you will be sliders (because of the pump for KDSS on the frame rail) and skid plates (I have not found ones that will work because of KDSS). I did find someone willing to weld on sliders for me. I am still working on the skids. Most 4Runner/FJ stuff will work. I would be more then willing to answer questions. Looking forward to the build.

 

[Riflman]

Hi Tex.

I'm curious about your comments about KDSS, since the 4wheeler GX had KDSS. They managed to get skids and armor on that one so I wonder how they did it? I went out looking specifically for ones with KDSS because of the articles and some of the comments praising it on toyota120. I'm a little nervous now. Sliders and skids are the most basic of necessities as far as I am concerned.

 

[Riflman]

Hey Tex I was just reading your build thread. Did you end up keeping those sliders on? I saw some pics that don't appear to have them. If so, have you had any issues with them camming up on impact, or having stumps, branches or even rocks getting snagged up in the holes?

 

[TexGX]

Riflman,

Did not mean to scare you. I would not have bought the GX without KDSS. I love it and would not change it for anything. The new 4Runner and LandCruiser 200 both run the same system. The GX was just first. I do have the sliders that you saw in the pictures with no problems. I am thinking of putting diamond plate on top to prevent rocks from hitting the truck and safety for my dog getting in and out, but other then that no problems. I had to mount them a little further out because of the pump on the frame rail. You can find skids, but will have to modified the front one to work with the larger row bar and mounts. There are no on the self options. I went with Icon and do not regret it one second. My wife likes the ride better then stock. I do recommend losing the airbags in back. I know of several people who have had the bags pop off. This is important for you and I because you will get more flex with KDSS. I used OME coils and have been very happy. Have fun with it, just know that KDSS is amazing but cause a couple of issues with over the self parts. It is more then worth the inconvenience.

 

[Riflman]

I am going to try to get some sliders fabbed up based on the ones I had on my D2 from Rovertym These were two piece sliders and sandwiched under the door sills. The main slider was extremely heavy duty and consisted of a ski along the bottom with a L-shaped steel backing plate. My model had a small nerf that was also extremely heavy duty and saved my dor panels from several rocks on and trees during off roading, and made a handy step for the ladies. It was still high enough that many short skirts were ripped trying to get in.

Here is a link to an install of the D2 sliders: http://www.discoweb.org/hdsliders/

Here's another link: http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f9/rovertym-rock-rail-install-47094/

And another that shows the sliders on the ground before the install: http://www.discoweb.org/rtesliders/

I have slammed down on rocks with these and could hook a hi-lift anywhere on that slider and lift the whole truck on one side with two wheels off the ground no problem. I have a friend who owns a welding shop, and used to run an old, heavily modded LC, so we'll see what we come up with for KDSS trucks and ones without.

And here are some more pictures of the sliders on the ground. I haven't even looked under the truck to see what I'm up against yet, as I've only had it for like 36 hours, but I'll try and figure out something that works better for extreme wheeling.

 

[FireGuy]

Congratulations. Here in the states it's hard to find a KDSS model so that is a great way to start. I would suggest looking up a few of the build treads here and decide what direction you want to go. The biggest issue for you will be sliders (because of the pump for KDSS on the frame rail) and skid plates (I have not found ones that will work because of KDSS). I did find someone willing to weld on sliders for me. I am still working on the skids. Most 4Runner/FJ stuff will work. I would be more then willing to answer questions. Looking forward to the build.

Are your sliders Stubbs Sliders? If so which ones are they? Did he custom make them? Or are they one of the 4runner models he already makes.

 

[Riflman]

Forgot to mention, I will definitely do something about the bags eventually when budget permits. My first D2, a 2000, had airbags, and I had one issue soon after building it. I used spacers under the rear after that and it worked okay, but I swamped it and wrote it off before I had the chance to really push it for any length of time.

My second D2 was a 2002. This one had coils in the rear. I swapped out the T-Case to get CDL, put new coils all around, put Bilstein 7100's salvaged what parts I could and kept going with mods until it was pretty much maxed out. That truck had incredible flex yet was butter on the road. I could put a coffee in the cup holder and go over speed bumps at 30MPH or more and not spill a drop. It floated over everything, but still did great on the highway despite having no rear sway. I also had QR front sways. Considering I probably had over 1500 pounds of additional crap on that truck, it was amazing on and off road. I really miss it. I'm hoping I can get the same performance (and feeling) from this GX, but with even better reliability. I spent $11,000 on a new motor at about 60,000 miles, and after another 40k, it was starting to make me worry again.

I'm also going to put an ARB in the rear just like the 4wheeler project truck, and think I'll stick with SSR's for tires if they'll fit. I ran 285/75/16's on my Rover, which were 34" high and about 11.5" wide. I had stock radius arms and had a bit of rubbing on max RH turns, but all it did was polish the steel a bit from the side lugs. I'm hoping I can get about the same size tire in there. Ideally I can find something tall and a bit thinner, like a 33-34" tire that's 10.5-11" wide and will fit on the stock rims.

Early threads talked about people running wheel spacers, but newer threads seem to contradict them. Are people still running spacers? I've personally never used them.

 

[TexGX]

FireGuy,

Yes mine are Stubb sliders. I believe they are called HO or HQ something. I just had to have someone weld them on.

Riflman,

I really like my 255/75/17's. Slight rubbing on front wheel well, but a minor fix. I have not noticed any performance difference with the almost 33's. I personally do not like spacers, but others on here run them without problems. The ARB is on the list, but have not had a time were I need them yet. If you read the TrailLex article, they say they could have done the rubi with out it. With you experience, you will have no problem getting the GX to it's full potential. Do you have pictures of your truck? The one you posted looks like a Prado tundra truck.

Waymon

 

[Riflman]

Yeah I realize now that pic is one of the artic trucks out if Iceland. I'm originally from Canada so I guess I'm drawn to those big tires. Just didn't realize they were THAT big.

I read all the trail lex articles, and those together with the mods I saw on a few sites convinced me to get one. But I made a very quick decision, after only recently even hearing of the Gx470 and now after more research, I'm suffering buyer's remorse. I thought by now there were much more options for mods, but those are mostly for the LX. I also misunderstood the KDSS. I thought they were electronic sway bar disconnects, but they are far from it. For the type of wheeling I do and am used to, I think the KDSS will severely limit flex on the trail even after I replace the rear bags. I think it's more of an on road anti-body roll gadget that will get in the way of all the armor and possibly attract rock damage. I'm used to driving with a lift, no rear sway and disconnects, and I even trailer a 7x14 dual axle v-nose overloaded with gear across the country and back on black ice highways with it that way. I'd rather have body roll than no flex. I realize it's IFS but...

I also saw bunch of videos where the GX was getting stuck in sand and very minor wheeling situations, and struggling with wheel slippage on climbs.

I have a 3 day no questions asked return available to me and I'm really considering taking advantage of it and sticking with another rover. The cost of ownership might be higher, but if the vehicle is only reliable be a use it sits in my driveway, I might as well drive a car. I really, really miss my disco. <sniffle>

 

[TexGX]

KDSS increases your flex and makes the ride on the road better. You are reading what people are saying about the system on the 4Runner which is crap. I can tell you I drive the hell out of my GX and It did things stock that shock most people. Now with the mods, it is that much better. I had to ditch the air bags because I was over flexing them. It is a hydraulic sway bar disconnect. The only truck that had more flex stock when I bought mine was the Jeep Rubicon. It is an amazing off-roader and you will not be disappointed. Plus you will have a mush better ride on the road. It is not that you can't mod it, it just takes a little longer to work the details out. You being in Canada means you have access to the Prado parts. That should make things easier. Check this out:

http://www.believe.co.nz/videos/kdss

You will love the GX

 

[Riflman]

Hi Tex.

I actually live in California now, so not as much mud and snow, but I'll travel to some for sure. I watched that video before. I also watched a few others, including some direct comparisons on youtube from people with KDSS vs. without. The non KDSS trucks had more flex when both had equal lifts because the KDSS will only allow droop so far. You cannot disconnect the sways. They are connected to a huge piston. The piston on has so much travel. I'll try and pull up the photos and thread I was looking at, but a KDSS equipped truck constantly had one rear wheel off the ground on the same trial where his buddy with non KDSS had full contact. The limitation was the KDSS, and not that I see how it works, I get it. On light wheeling, it might do something, and obviously it controls body roll, but even in KDSS video, it is a very slight improvement. I have to the end of today to decide what to do. I need a vehicle anyway, so perhaps I'll keep it stock or just level it out in the front so it doesn't look like a mini van and drive it until I find something else. The saving grace is they aren't that hard to sell, but once I start modding it, it won't be as easy, so before I soak thousands in, I want to know if the truck can perform the way I want it to.

Once I discovered it was basically a rebadged Prado, I found much more info on the GX. For example, look how poorly it does in sand:
The lack of a crawl mode I think hurts it in sand. The LR's have it, as do the Landcruiser. I was also mistaken in my understanding that the Lexus was and Prado were rebadged Land Cruisers. They are not the same truck. I realize that toyota is calling the Prado a LC, but it kind of a scaled down version of the LC. Again, I would need to have purchased a LX as far as I'm aware. Or a full on LC.

 

[Riflman]

Does anyone know of a body lift kit for the GX? Perhaps with a suspension lift, and then a body lift, one could gain greater clearance for tires and to avoid damage and the KDSS would help with the higher center of gravity on road.

 

[TexGX]

Riflman,

I see your point on the KDSS maybe limiting the travel. You read about TrailLex doing the Rubicon with a mild lift and rear locker(GX with KDSS). At the end of the trail what's more important, how you looked getting there(more flex or less) or that you got there without breaking anything. It you are planning to do more extreme trails then the rubi, I would say the GX may not be the best and an 80 would work better. I can say from experience that I have yet been anywhere that the GX let me down stock(street tires) and with the new additions I only expect it to do better. I remember on trail ride with the Overland Journal group one hill climb that the other modified trucks spinned their wheel to make it up and my stock GX on street tires(not aired down) walked up without spinning the tire once. I would be interested in who made the video you posted. I have heard of some people by passing the VCS in low for more wheel spin in sand. I have never had a problem just airing down my tires, but can not say that I have been in supper deep sand. It would be fun to find some sand to check it out. I did have a LR3 beat me up a hill climb in Moab once that still sticks under my skin, but I was on street tires and could not get traction. The funny thing is that person got rid of his LR3 shortly after the trip because the air system failed one to many times on a trip and they had to ride out on bump stops. If you give the GX a chance I think you will see that with some slight modifications, it can be the best of both worlds. Great on the road and able to get you too and back from most anywhere. Good luck with your decision.

TexGX