evaliquette
Observer
it fits nicely under a queen bed along with the back panel
I've always wanted to sleep with my Jeep and now I can!
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Converting a factory JK/JKU hardtop to modular
- Thread starter jscherb
- Start date
I've always wanted to sleep with my Jeep and now I can!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Back to the Freedom Panel Skylight project... I think I mentioned that I have a price quote for the tempered glass, and it's very good. The hard part of getting this project into production is finding a source for affordable latches. I like the ones I used for the prototype, I got them out of an F150 Extra Cab at the u-pull junkyard. They're also used in E150 vans. Problem is the best price I can find on them new/aftermarket is about $45 each.
I did find the latches pictured below, they would work also. They're available new/aftermarket for a lot less than the F150/E150 latches.
One option I suggested to the company that wants to make this a product is that they could use the F150/E150 latches, and sell the kit with them and without them. THe kit with them would be more expensive, the kit without them would require the buyer to source his own latches, which could be done at a junkyard (there are lots of the right trucks in the junkyards these days), or buy them on eBay, there are usually several listings for them at any time.
Not sure which direction to go with the latches yet. The two latches require different holes in the glass, so I have to figure this out before the glass could be made.
I did find the latches pictured below, they would work also. They're available new/aftermarket for a lot less than the F150/E150 latches.
One option I suggested to the company that wants to make this a product is that they could use the F150/E150 latches, and sell the kit with them and without them. THe kit with them would be more expensive, the kit without them would require the buyer to source his own latches, which could be done at a junkyard (there are lots of the right trucks in the junkyards these days), or buy them on eBay, there are usually several listings for them at any time.
Not sure which direction to go with the latches yet. The two latches require different holes in the glass, so I have to figure this out before the glass could be made.
jgaz
Adventurer
I think your idea of giving the customer a choice is a good one. I would rather use an OEM piece anytime.
I enjoy prowling the "pick and pull" yards but some people may not. Must be a leftover thing from my street rod days.
When I worked in a dealership (mid 70's to mid 80's) there were a number if times it was necessary to repair an aftermarket sunroof, a pick up sliding rear window, etc. It would have been much easier if you could source the needed parts from a dealer.
Aftermarket companies come and go.
I enjoy prowling the "pick and pull" yards but some people may not. Must be a leftover thing from my street rod days.
When I worked in a dealership (mid 70's to mid 80's) there were a number if times it was necessary to repair an aftermarket sunroof, a pick up sliding rear window, etc. It would have been much easier if you could source the needed parts from a dealer.
Aftermarket companies come and go.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the OEM latches have an adjustable strut, versus the fixed strut of the aftermarket latch.
If that is the case I'd probably opt for the kit w/o latches and pick up a set of OEM latches.
The other nice thing about OEM is 10 years down the road, the parts are usually still available, versus aftermarket that may have changed, been discontinued etc..
If that is the case I'd probably opt for the kit w/o latches and pick up a set of OEM latches.
The other nice thing about OEM is 10 years down the road, the parts are usually still available, versus aftermarket that may have changed, been discontinued etc..
jscherb
Expedition Leader
I haven't found a perfect latch solution for these skylights yet.
The Ford F150/E150 latches I used in the prototype have apparently been discontinued by Ford and I can't find them aftermarket, so the only place to get them would be dealers/retailers that have some on the shelf or used, either from a junkyard or eBay sellers. There are many thousands of Ford trucks from 97-05 that use them though, so they'll be plentiful in the junkyard and on eBay for some time to come. Yes, they have some adjustment.
The latches I tested today are available aftermarket (they're aftermarket versions of an OEM part BTW) but they're from a vehicle that's not imported into the U.S., so the only sources are overseas and you'll never find them used in this country. But they are very affordable and would keep the overall kit cost low.
You might think adjustability is an important feature, but I'm not so sure it is. Everything I've done with this design uses well-proven automotive components that have been used in vent windows for years and I've never heard of a vent window needing to be adjusted, in fact it's very rare for OEM vent window latches to have any adjustment at all, so apparently the auto manufacturers don't feel adjustment is an important feature. And in the rare case that adjustment is necessary, it's very easy to add a shim between the latch base and the inside of the panel where it mounts, so if an eighth of an inch was needed for some reason (perhaps your Freedom Panels are warped), a 1/8" shim could be added.
I've spent a lot of time in my local u-pull checking out latches and most don't suit this application well. Nothing from GM looks like it would be a good fit; nothing from MOPAR either. Some years of Toyota Tacoma have a latch that looks like it would work, but at least half of the ones I see in the junkyard are broken so they might not be a good bet. I'm also researching replacement parts for automotive skylights, although so far nothing available seems like it would work.
So the choice will probably be one of the ones I've tested, either the F150/E150 latch or the aftermarket one I just tested. Not sure which is the better choice at this point.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
Is the Ford latch adjustable?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
Yes, I mentioned that it was. There's a small amount of adjustment where it bolts to the glass, you can see the threads in this photo.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
I was talking with someone the other day who was interested in building a pickup-cab JK 2-door hardtop by modifying a factory top. His idea was to cut the top apart, take a section out of the middle and put it back together shorter, which might sound like a straightforward project but there are a number of challenges to overcome. Since this thread is about modifying factory hardtops, I'll summarize that conversation here "for the permanent record" in case anyone is ever thinking about doing such a project, hopefully this post can provide some input to help someone figure out how to do the project.
Challenge 1: The JK tub tapers and is narrower at the back than at the b-pillar. The reason this is a challenge is that the back panel of the factory hardtop is too narrow to serve as the back of a short pickup cab. The back panel will have to be widened in order to be moved forward. About 5 years ago MBRP did a custom JKU with a shortened cab, this photo is from their project. They chose to widen the back panel by cutting it diagonally at the top corners of the hatch opening and adding narrow filler panels there:
The back panel is also double-walled, so cutting and adding these fillers disrupts the inside shell as well so it's more work than it might appear from the photo above.
Challenge 2: Using the factory liftgate glass as the back window doesn't result in a very factory pickup look. If you like the look of a pickup cab with a huge rear window that's great, but if you want a more traditional look you'd want to fill in the hatch opening and put a smaller pickup-style window in the filled area. The challenge is that the hatch area is curved in both directions, so if you want it to look right you'll want to figure out how to fill it with a curved panel. And then once you do that you'll have to figure out how to mount a window (which would probably be flat) in that curved surface.
What I'd do is use the JK Safari Cab barn door outer skin mold to make the filler panel; it's got the right curves plus a flat area for mounting a window. Imagine in this photo instead of being a barn door the skin was grafted to the back panel to form a continuous panel.
Unfortunately most people wouldn't have that easy option so they'll have to figure some other way to fill the hatch opening and put a smaller window in.
Challenge 3: A bulkhead will be needed to close out the tub below the hardtop. This next photo shows the Gr8Tops half cab hardtop components, including the bulkhead. The bulkhead for a JK needs to be curved to match the curve of the back panel, and it's an irregular shape to fill the inside of the tub, so it could be a complicated project.
Gr8Tops would probably sell a bulkhead separately so that may be a good place to start, although if you're doing your custom half cab at a different length then theirs you may have to modify their bulkhead in order to fit it in a different position in the tub.
Challenge 4: What to do with the "sport bars". Do you make the half cab so the rear bars can pass through the back wall of the half cab or do you cut/remove the rear part of the factory sport bars?
Most of the other things you'd have to do for a pickup cab conversion are fairly straightforward cut/fill/splice operations that aren't too difficult but it's worth doing some digital cut/paste operations with photos of a factory hardtop to come up with a detailed plan before cutting the actual hardtop.
FWIW.
Challenge 1: The JK tub tapers and is narrower at the back than at the b-pillar. The reason this is a challenge is that the back panel of the factory hardtop is too narrow to serve as the back of a short pickup cab. The back panel will have to be widened in order to be moved forward. About 5 years ago MBRP did a custom JKU with a shortened cab, this photo is from their project. They chose to widen the back panel by cutting it diagonally at the top corners of the hatch opening and adding narrow filler panels there:
The back panel is also double-walled, so cutting and adding these fillers disrupts the inside shell as well so it's more work than it might appear from the photo above.
Challenge 2: Using the factory liftgate glass as the back window doesn't result in a very factory pickup look. If you like the look of a pickup cab with a huge rear window that's great, but if you want a more traditional look you'd want to fill in the hatch opening and put a smaller pickup-style window in the filled area. The challenge is that the hatch area is curved in both directions, so if you want it to look right you'll want to figure out how to fill it with a curved panel. And then once you do that you'll have to figure out how to mount a window (which would probably be flat) in that curved surface.
What I'd do is use the JK Safari Cab barn door outer skin mold to make the filler panel; it's got the right curves plus a flat area for mounting a window. Imagine in this photo instead of being a barn door the skin was grafted to the back panel to form a continuous panel.
Unfortunately most people wouldn't have that easy option so they'll have to figure some other way to fill the hatch opening and put a smaller window in.
Challenge 3: A bulkhead will be needed to close out the tub below the hardtop. This next photo shows the Gr8Tops half cab hardtop components, including the bulkhead. The bulkhead for a JK needs to be curved to match the curve of the back panel, and it's an irregular shape to fill the inside of the tub, so it could be a complicated project.
Gr8Tops would probably sell a bulkhead separately so that may be a good place to start, although if you're doing your custom half cab at a different length then theirs you may have to modify their bulkhead in order to fit it in a different position in the tub.
Challenge 4: What to do with the "sport bars". Do you make the half cab so the rear bars can pass through the back wall of the half cab or do you cut/remove the rear part of the factory sport bars?
Most of the other things you'd have to do for a pickup cab conversion are fairly straightforward cut/fill/splice operations that aren't too difficult but it's worth doing some digital cut/paste operations with photos of a factory hardtop to come up with a detailed plan before cutting the actual hardtop.
FWIW.
jscherb
Expedition Leader
When I lived in London I got into the habit of reading several Land Rover magazines, and even now I still subscribe because I find a lot of interesting ideas in them. Found this in the January issue of Land Rover Owner International:
It's two parts - a cargo hatch which swings up with an inside pegboard for mounting things, and a table which swings down and looks like it covers the hatch when it's closed. I'm guessing the two parts are available separately, although I haven't gone to the company's website yet to check it out. Also interesting, it's got hatches on the opera windows on each side of the barn door.
I found this interesting because I've been experimenting with a cargo hatch for the JK, although I hadn't thought about combining it with a swing-down table. I always find good ideas in the LR magazines.
It's two parts - a cargo hatch which swings up with an inside pegboard for mounting things, and a table which swings down and looks like it covers the hatch when it's closed. I'm guessing the two parts are available separately, although I haven't gone to the company's website yet to check it out. Also interesting, it's got hatches on the opera windows on each side of the barn door.
I found this interesting because I've been experimenting with a cargo hatch for the JK, although I hadn't thought about combining it with a swing-down table. I always find good ideas in the LR magazines.
Comanche Scott
Expedition Leader
In the LR article, did you notice the rear quarter windows were changed to hatches as well?
Thought that was a pretty cool idea with the air hose. Could even mount a retractable air hose reel inside.
That whole build they have done is pretty awesome.
Thought that was a pretty cool idea with the air hose. Could even mount a retractable air hose reel inside.
That whole build they have done is pretty awesome.
briandamge
New member
This is great! I'm itching to do a similar modification, but I have no experience in fiberglass. I was thinking of using slotted angle iron and rivets (which I do have experience with) to attach the modular pieces together, instead. Do you have any thoughts, tips or warnings about that direction?
jscherb
Expedition Leader
I strongly advise against trying to do this project with slotted angle.
If you've got experience with slotted angle then you know it doesn't conform well to curves - but what you may not realize is that there are virtually no straight lines on the JK, including the hardtop. I doubt you'll get good seals between the parts if you try to force straight angle to conform to the compound curves on the hardtop. Also, the angle, being more rigid than the fiberglass of the hardtop, will cause the hardtop curves to straighten in some places but not others, another reason you won't get a good fit at many of the joints or good seals. And for some of the joints there's very little room to install an angle.
Don't be afraid of fiberglass, with the amount of step-by-step detail that's in this thread I'm confident almost anyone can succeed with this conversion. And I'm always here to answer questions.
briandamge
New member
You've hit on exactly the two points I was worried about. Thanks for the advice and encouragement!