A lot of people believe that copper/brass radiators built identical to an aluminum radiator not only cools better but also is sturdier and will last longer. Aluminum however is substantially lighter. There are also those in the "hot rod" world that believe adding more cores ie 2 core vs 4 core reduces cooling efficiency because the added cores have been tested to add heat back into the coolant after it's already been cooled. Not sure why. There is however little argument that a larger, larger suface frontal surface area radiator will cool better than a smaller one.
Desert Rigs: Ideas to help keep cool. Share
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A lot of people believe that copper/brass radiators built identical to an aluminum radiator not only cools better but also is sturdier and will last longer. Aluminum however is substantially lighter. There are also those in the "hot rod" world that believe adding more cores ie 2 core vs 4 core reduces cooling efficiency because the added cores have been tested to add heat back into the coolant after it's already been cooled. Not sure why. There is however little argument that a larger, larger suface frontal surface area radiator will cool better than a smaller one.
88Xj
Banned
Idk what you mean by that..the 3 core is thicker, not physically wider or taller, so the surface area..at least frontal area is the same. Its harder for air to pass through the thicker radiator at slower speeds. Imagine putting a piece of netting in front of your mouth and sucking. Then double or tripple that and its gets harder to suck air through. Bad comparison but still.
My autozone radiator is in great shape still. So ill be running it until I find a reason not to.
And I have the condensor up front which will actually now be removed..compressor kicked up the bucket in the past few days. Ditching all that stuff to clean up the bay. Outside of that i have a powersteering cooler and may throw up a oil cooler, haven't decided if I really need 1 yet. May just add a remote oil filter to hold a little more oil and be done with it.
pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
I picked up one of these but have not installed it yet. I will update when it's in use.
http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Powered-Attic-Fan-20-Ventilator/dp/B00B002WAA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_19
http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Powered-Attic-Fan-20-Ventilator/dp/B00B002WAA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_19
SoCalMonty
Explorer
You probably don't need a multi-core radiator. There are a ton of variables involved, but technically, multi-core radiators do have a greater surface area (not frontal area). A 2-core unit theoretically has double the surface area in the tubes and fins, offering the liquid double the opportunity to dissipate heat into the air. Fin design and fin density have a lot to do with airflow through the unit, but the engineers have done this homework for you more often than not.
For wheeling in 4-Low, where you've got low speeds plus relatively high engine loads, an electric fan with a toggle switch solves the problem of low speed/high load air flow through the radiator. Though, I'm still using my stock fan, with damaged blades and no shroud - and it hasn't gotten hot on me yet (I use most of the tricks in my list below...otherwise, I would be running hot when wheeling).
Some multi-core applications assume you're going to be using an upgraded fan and water pump, so that's something to look out for. That's the other thing to think about too with multiple cores is that your stock water pump may not be enough to circulate coolant through it, reducing the convection cooling in the system and defeating the purpose of the upgrade to a certain extent.
But anyway...your stock radiator with a couple little mods for efficiency is probably more than adequate. Here's my engine cooling list...
1) A clean, OE style radiator...no scaling or buildup internally.
2) Fully shrouded.
3) The Ford fan is a great idea. I've yet to install mine on the truck though. My to-do list is huge! One of these days...
4) Water Wetter or similar, at least 50% water (here in SoCal, I don't see anything below 32 degrees but a few times a year...I am currently running 90% water).
5) Hood vents...I can't tell you what a huge difference this made, just in radiant heat alone you can feel the difference in the amount of heat coming off the radiator plain as day.
6) Oil cooler...do it. First off, oil temperature is directly related to engine life. Second, if you cool one thing, the other things will also be cooled passively because you're reducing the thermal load...if you cool your oil, your coolant will be affected, and vice versa...same as your transmission if you had an automatic. For as cheap as it is (under $16 for an OEM cooler at a junkyard, and some hose) it's a no-brainer. Especially if you're in the desert.
7) You can run sans t-stat in the summer to increase coolant flow a little. It might take another 60-90 seconds to get up to running temperature (not a big deal).
...unless you're putting out 400% of the factory horsepower at high RPM's in summer heat on a regular basis, this is going to get the job done, and increase the temperature ceiling by a huge margin allowing your engine to work harder and longer while staying in the optimum temperature range (around 195-200 degrees is ideal for most engines).
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^- This. Another trick for vehicles with compact and/or crowded engine bays and grills is to mount a couple muffin fans on the cooler, so it can be mounted underneath the body or out of the way in the engine bay and still get good airflow. It's great if you have an odd corner or bit of wasted space above a skidplate. Also, depending on the vehicle, you might be able to position it so that the backwash from the main fan cools it.
Other cooling tricks-
1. On older outfits, switch from a clutched fan to a fixed fan(NOT a flex-blade fan, but a full rigid one) during the summer. You can get fans and spacers from Summit for $25 or so.
2. If you have intermittent cooling problems, or are attacking a very steep grade (Morrison, for example), disconnect your windshield washer line from the frogs on the hood and reroute it to spray over the radiator. The removable ends from a ball point pen can make very nice spray nozzles when modified. Hit the sprayers whenever you get to a particularly difficult stretch, though you do get odd looks for running the wipers on a blazing hot 115* day
Matt
Stumpalump
Expedition Leader
I just returned from 4 days at Dumont Sand Dunes. It's right next to Death Valley and the temps were over 100 all day but only maxed out at 106. I live near Phoenix so dealing with the heat is constant.
On the vehicles a properly maintained stock cooling system does it all. Pulling a heavy trailer in these temps is no problem. If it is then you just need to throw in a new radiator. You will find thousands of internet threads on overheating but trust me..Always start your overheating problem with a new radiator. Hood vents are horrible. I have them on my XJ. They vent the hot engine temps right into the cowl vent and that heats the cabin unless you only use recirculate on the AC. The sand rails are turbo charged or super charged and we flog those things wide open to rocket up the dunes but heat is not a problem. One guy with a 450 hp LS V8 saw 210 degrees. I saw 200 max on a my supercharged ecotec engine and my buddy Honda 3.5 powered buggy ran at 180. His fan only kicked on one time when he was pulley my buggy back on its wheels. We run duel electric fans and off the shelf racing radiators but other tricks on modified engines are to know what the ignition timing is doing and when and having the right octane for your compression ratio and boost. Even the 2 and 3 hundred horsepower air cooled VW based engines do fine in the heat but they use a external oil filter, an additional oil cooler with a fan and run 6 quarts of oil. It's amazing that a 40 hp engine can be tweaked out to produce so much power and still run hard in the heat.
Clothing is cotton. Forget all synthetics or high tech clothing. They don't work. They get stinky. They don't wick sweat and cool you. They suck and cotton works. I wear long sleeves and long pants unless I'm in the shade. I keep full brim hat around but take it off as soon as I'm in shade to cool my head and let the hat dry out. My hydration starts in the AM. 3 cups of weak coffee and a half gallon of water. If I'm not pissing every two hours I chug more water. You must pee constantly in this kind of heat or you will bog down fast.
The camper van has a Fantastic fan roof vent. I rarely turn the fan on because the heat just rises up and out of the vent. In other words a hole in your roof is a great thing. Tinted windows are great but I use a nylon material full windshield cover on the outside. A company called Screenz makes slip over screens for side windows. We may not have bugs out west but those thick screens block most of the sun. Keeping the sun off the glass from the outside works best at keeping temps down. I use an awning as well and my white van does not get hotter inside than the outside temp when parked this way.
On the vehicles a properly maintained stock cooling system does it all. Pulling a heavy trailer in these temps is no problem. If it is then you just need to throw in a new radiator. You will find thousands of internet threads on overheating but trust me..Always start your overheating problem with a new radiator. Hood vents are horrible. I have them on my XJ. They vent the hot engine temps right into the cowl vent and that heats the cabin unless you only use recirculate on the AC. The sand rails are turbo charged or super charged and we flog those things wide open to rocket up the dunes but heat is not a problem. One guy with a 450 hp LS V8 saw 210 degrees. I saw 200 max on a my supercharged ecotec engine and my buddy Honda 3.5 powered buggy ran at 180. His fan only kicked on one time when he was pulley my buggy back on its wheels. We run duel electric fans and off the shelf racing radiators but other tricks on modified engines are to know what the ignition timing is doing and when and having the right octane for your compression ratio and boost. Even the 2 and 3 hundred horsepower air cooled VW based engines do fine in the heat but they use a external oil filter, an additional oil cooler with a fan and run 6 quarts of oil. It's amazing that a 40 hp engine can be tweaked out to produce so much power and still run hard in the heat.
Clothing is cotton. Forget all synthetics or high tech clothing. They don't work. They get stinky. They don't wick sweat and cool you. They suck and cotton works. I wear long sleeves and long pants unless I'm in the shade. I keep full brim hat around but take it off as soon as I'm in shade to cool my head and let the hat dry out. My hydration starts in the AM. 3 cups of weak coffee and a half gallon of water. If I'm not pissing every two hours I chug more water. You must pee constantly in this kind of heat or you will bog down fast.
The camper van has a Fantastic fan roof vent. I rarely turn the fan on because the heat just rises up and out of the vent. In other words a hole in your roof is a great thing. Tinted windows are great but I use a nylon material full windshield cover on the outside. A company called Screenz makes slip over screens for side windows. We may not have bugs out west but those thick screens block most of the sun. Keeping the sun off the glass from the outside works best at keeping temps down. I use an awning as well and my white van does not get hotter inside than the outside temp when parked this way.
SoCalMonty
Explorer
lol...I was just out there.
One big variable there, though, is you're talking about very light weight buggies, compared to a fully-loaded SUV packed for a 4-day trail run. My truck's curb weight (stock) is about 4,500 lbs., and then passengers, cargo, accessories and gear will add another 1,000 lbs. easy...making my on-trail weight closer to 5,500 lbs.
Couple that with 4-Low climbing steep grades on over-sized, under-inflated tires in summer heat, and it's so brutal on some stock vehicles that you can't hold your hand in front of the grill after a hard climb because it will burn you! Plus, automatic transmissions will overheat (my buddy's "A/T TEMP" warning light came on during a climb a couple weeks ago, and we had to pull over and let his truck cool down...we were climbing at about 6 to 10 mph).
While you're running those things at higher RPM's, the engine doesn't have nearly as much weight to pull around...
936 lbs curb weight:
~1600 lbs curb weight:
But yeah, for most people, the stock stuff is just fine. It really does depend on load and conditions though. You were spot on with ignition timing and heat, though most modern cars are computer controlled so it's a non issue as long as the base timing was set right on the belt and pullies. I notice a difference on the bug, though, when I tweak the timing (2275 cc's).
A roof vent would be awesome...and keeping heat off the glass from the outside would certainly be ideal! Too bad there's no legal way to do that while driving. I'm gonna build some ghetto sun shades from mylar blankets and cardboard to use while off-road, or when sleeping or resting in the truck. I figure if it doesn't work, I've only wasted perhaps $10 and an hour of work.
One big variable there, though, is you're talking about very light weight buggies, compared to a fully-loaded SUV packed for a 4-day trail run. My truck's curb weight (stock) is about 4,500 lbs., and then passengers, cargo, accessories and gear will add another 1,000 lbs. easy...making my on-trail weight closer to 5,500 lbs.
Couple that with 4-Low climbing steep grades on over-sized, under-inflated tires in summer heat, and it's so brutal on some stock vehicles that you can't hold your hand in front of the grill after a hard climb because it will burn you! Plus, automatic transmissions will overheat (my buddy's "A/T TEMP" warning light came on during a climb a couple weeks ago, and we had to pull over and let his truck cool down...we were climbing at about 6 to 10 mph).
While you're running those things at higher RPM's, the engine doesn't have nearly as much weight to pull around...
936 lbs curb weight:
~1600 lbs curb weight:
But yeah, for most people, the stock stuff is just fine. It really does depend on load and conditions though. You were spot on with ignition timing and heat, though most modern cars are computer controlled so it's a non issue as long as the base timing was set right on the belt and pullies. I notice a difference on the bug, though, when I tweak the timing (2275 cc's).
A roof vent would be awesome...and keeping heat off the glass from the outside would certainly be ideal! Too bad there's no legal way to do that while driving.
I'm gonna build some ghetto sun shades from mylar blankets and cardboard to use while off-road, or when sleeping or resting in the truck. I figure if it doesn't work, I've only wasted perhaps $10 and an hour of work.
Stumpalump
Expedition Leader
lol...I was just out there.
One big variable there, though, is you're talking about very light weight buggies, compared to a fully-loaded SUV
~1600 lbs curb weight:
View attachment 158216
Nice buggys! Mine and my buddy's weigh the same as this one. Bang 3rd and pull a wheelie....45 degree bowls to bank turns in. It's so fun I'd give up every hobby and toy I own to keep running those huge sand dunes. It's too hot now but we are planning to run the dunes in Idaho late July if you want to go.
SoCalMonty
Explorer
I appreciate the invite, but those buggys were just examples with posted weights from random forums...my Montero would sink into the sand like a brick in water. LOL! I was passing through on the way home from a Death Valley trip. I'm not much of a sand guy - with my luck, my CV boot will split on my way in and I'll grind the bearings to a paste once the sand gets in there. Haha. I don't like mud either. The cleanup is just tedious. I'm pretty boring.
SoCalMonty
Explorer
For a total cost of under 30 bucks, it's hard to justify not doing it! Hell, Id even give you an oil cooler, but the only extras I have don't have fittings on them yet!
john101477
Photographer in the Wild
:sombrero: My jeep lives in the NorNv desert and the temps have gone up to 115°F (usually 95°F) and I've insulated the inside overhead surface of my '08 JKUR-
There are several overhead insul companys so that won't matter, but
By using Auto Thermal-Acoustic insulation (shinyside up) my jeep can op in the desert and The A/C only has to be cycled now and then--I don't like full A/C-
:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO
You know I hate to jack this thread but feel compelled to say, I am a Toyota guy but this jeep alone could convert me... Sweet Ride man...
Thread Jack Off
Heat Shield
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/products/heat_shields_and_thermal_barriers/21
JIMBO
Expedition Leader
Well thank you very much john-I've got two Toyotas also !!
Good day
:costumed-smiley-007:wings: JIMBO
john101477
Photographer in the Wild
hahaha Nice.
88Xj
Banned
My issue wouldn't be money, more of space and getting 1 that only allows cooling when the oil hits a certain temp. Cooling cold oil does nothing!