EV acceptance is peaking

Dougnuts

Well-known member
Why would a larger battery take a faster charge rate (assuming same cells; e.g. 4680 type)?
The smaller pack would have less internal resistance (shorter current path) and be better able to dissipate heat (surface area to volume).

It's kind of a use case situation, but here's how I understand it.

You can only pour the current to a battery until about 80% capacity is reached, then it must slow down, quite a bit. If you can get by without charging past 80%, your charge time will be drastically reduced. Ergo, a larger battery allows for you to do more with it before requiring charging that last 20%, which could double charge time.

Real world example; If you look at Tesla's trip planner, it will only have you charge over 80% when it's absolutely necessary to get where you are going.

Notes: Some battery chemistries are better at this than others. Also, on some cars, 100% charge is limited to 80% of the physical battery capacity, so they give the illusion of charging to 100% without slowing down, but they really aren't.
 
At it's root, it's an energy density problem. The 1060lb battery in my model 3 long range is energetically equivalent to about 2.5 gallons of gas. The electric drive train is wildly more efficient than an traditional ICE/mechanical transmission, which is the only way this begins to be a real thing. Every added pound, newton of rolling resistance or air resistance reduces efficiency and makes the theoretical 2.5 gallons of gas in the tank go away faster. These things aren't problems in a 7x-series land cruiser since you are carrying 10X the amount of energy.

It almost seems like the features I would want on an off-road/overland vehicle aren't really suited to an EV. I think that's ok. Not every vehicle needs to be all things.

I will, however, be working my model 3 into a lifted off road toy once the warranty is up.
 

Dougnuts

Well-known member
At it's root, it's an energy density problem. The 1060lb battery in my model 3 long range is energetically equivalent to about 2.5 gallons of gas. The electric drive train is wildly more efficient than an traditional ICE/mechanical transmission, which is the only way this begins to be a real thing. Every added pound, newton of rolling resistance or air resistance reduces efficiency and makes the theoretical 2.5 gallons of gas in the tank go away faster. These things aren't problems in a 7x-series land cruiser since you are carrying 10X the amount of energy.

It almost seems like the features I would want on an off-road/overland vehicle aren't really suited to an EV. I think that's ok. Not every vehicle needs to be all things.

I wish everyone knew this. There are guys online who complain that the Lightning only goes 90 miles when towing but don't realize that they are basically getting the equivalent of 23mpg. If you tow far or often, then it's not the right tool (yet), but if you take the boat to the ramp twice a year and go to Lowes on the weekend, an EV truck would probably suit you just fine.

For now, EV's are a use case scenario tool. Any EV could easily replace the hybrid Camry that I drive every day. If I need to knock out 1000 miles in a day, which I do a few times a year, I'll take my truck.
 
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3laine

Member
Why would a larger battery take a faster charge rate (assuming same cells; e.g. 4680 type)?
The smaller pack would have less internal resistance (shorter current path) and be better able to dissipate heat (surface area to volume).

There are other factors, like you're mentioning, but basically, battery cells have a maximum C-rate.

If a battery has a C-Rate of 2C, then a battery of 100kWh can charge at 200kW.

Double that capacity to 200kWh and it can charge at 400kW. Maybe its 375kW due to other factors.

Lots of ways to skin a cat, like different chemistries, cooling, etc. (Teslas charge at max ~3C. Lightning at 1.6C, for instance), but generally, bigger batteries mean higher maximum charge rates and higher maximum discharge (horsepower). This is true for several EVs where the drivetrain is very similar (motors, etc.), but the versions with bigger batteries are quicker and charge faster substantially because of the bigger batteries (SR Model 3 vs LR Model 3 LR, Lightning SR vs ER, Porsche Taycan w/ small battery vs big, etc.).
 

XCvagn

Member
A whole bunch of people recently learned that very cold weather isn't conducive for getting
an EV charged.
As commodities prices rise so will battery prices.
Look what it cost to replace a battery on a used Tesla.
Hertz is off loading most of it's EC fleet.
Must by why Montana school districts (and across other cold climate states) discovered electric buses are better than diesel in sub zero.


Also, don’t tell Norwegians EVs don’t work in cold. The range impact is only a bit more than for gas cars, and diesel (if it’s not gelled and you can start one).


The issue was Tesla Superchargers in Chicago that made for a great Fox soundbite about EVs. Note how it was only Tesla that had issue and at a couple of Supercharger sites in Chicago. The problem is compounded by the fact Tesla doesn’t have customer support, PR, marketing, and now lacks a Supercharger team, Supercharger maintenance and operations team, new product development. Which will only give more anecdotal evidence EVs aren’t viable for (for some viewers).
 

jkam

nomadic man
The Chinese are flooding the EV market with much cheaper products.
That has had a negative effect on other manufacturers.
Plenty of storage lots full of all kinds of vehicles that probably won't
ever get sold.
And interest rates aren't helping.
 

plainjaneFJC

Deplorable
Must by why Montana school districts (and across other cold climate states) discovered electric buses are better than diesel in sub zero.


Also, don’t tell Norwegians EVs don’t work in cold. The range impact is only a bit more than for gas cars, and diesel (if it’s not gelled and you can start one).


The issue was Tesla Superchargers in Chicago that made for a great Fox soundbite about EVs. Note how it was only Tesla that had issue and at a couple of Supercharger sites in Chicago. The problem is compounded by the fact Tesla doesn’t have customer support, PR, marketing, and now lacks a Supercharger team, Supercharger maintenance and operations team, new product development. Which will only give more anecdotal evidence EVs aren’t viable for (for some viewers).
Rail on Fox then quote npr…. How about neither?
 

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