Improved Engine Cooling?

[Steve Rupp]

Just seems like... the Rover community tries to exorcise all electrickery from their vehicles, and you're converting a mission critical component to electric. If anything goes wrong with that electric pump, you probably won't know until it's too late, unless you have a temp sensor on the block or something.

Just to be clear, this is for my buggy. My comment about my discovery was just a thought and I seriously doubt I would ever do it. I've maintained my cooling system and have never had a problem with cooling. It was just a dumb thought going through my head.

 

[James86004]

Steve, honest question: What are you hoping to gain with the electric water pump? The OEM's looked at this as a means of gaining fuel economy. I'm sure that's not your goal. The electric water pumps proved to be too costly, and too unreliable. So it was abandoned.

I understand BMW is using electric coolant pumps on their newest engines. They claim faster warm-ups are a huge advantage. But then, they have also decided their engines don't need oil dipsticks any more.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

It very likely is that pump. I did not recall where it was used until you mentioned it. Pegasus carries both in the U.S. for anyone interested in one or the other.

On the desert race truck that I chase we have two radiators in it. The rules require a radiator up front, so it has one. The radiator that does most of the work is in the bed. GM 2.8l water pump does the job all by itself.

I realize why you might want to run the coolant through a chassis tube, but that usually that results in a less than ideal chassis design, it presents an opportunity for by-standers to be burnt, and it compromises the life of the chassis.
If you insist on doing this I would highly suggest coating the inside of the tube(s) with something like Moroso's ceramic engine sealant and use the old school foam insulation anywhere someone might come in contact with the tube(s).
We used "muffler-moly" for the plumbing to the rear radiator. Supported it on more "muffler-moly" saddles with hose clamps holding the tubes to the saddles.

The smaller Davies electric pump looks almost exactly like the Lightning pump. At first I thought it was just rebranded, but it's not.

I also think using a dedicated tube would be the better way to go. No compromises in the routing of it, or compromises in the structure of the chassis.

Just to be clear, this is for my buggy. My comment about my discovery was just a thought and I seriously doubt I would ever do it. I've maintained my cooling system and have never had a problem with cooling. It was just a dumb thought going through my head.

I got that. I still think it's adding complexity that may not be necessary on your buggy.

I understand BMW is using electric coolant pumps on their newest engines. They claim faster warm-ups are a huge advantage. But then, they have also decided their engines don't need oil dipsticks any more.

Yes, that is one of the reasons the OEM's were looking at it. Also because while cruising, a mechanical pump draws more power from the crank than really needed. Electric pump would draw only a small amount of power while cruising.

There's no doubt electric pumps have advantages, but they haven't been widely accepted to be worth the tradeoffs. BMW does a lot of "bleeding edge" things that bite them in the MMM later.

 

[Snagger]

It really has more to do with flow than cooling capability. I'll be using the chassis 1.75 .120 main tube to run the coolant to the back. I just have a feeling the stock pump isn't going be able to handle this.

Won't filling the chassis with water be awfully heavy for a racer?

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm sure he's only talking about 2 tubes.

 

[Steve Rupp]

I'm sure the tubes are going to get hot and i'm not worried about it. I guess i'll just have to paint "CAUTION HOT" on the tubes. As far as heavy, it'll only be about 5' each way. I'm not 100% that the rad is going in the back anyway. I'll see when i get the engine in if i have enough room up front.

Ok back to Land Rovers.

 

[ntsqd]

Just to be clear, this is for my buggy. My comment about my discovery was just a thought and I seriously doubt I would ever do it. I've maintained my cooling system and have never had a problem with cooling. It was just a dumb thought going through my head.

FWIW I don't think that it's a silly idea, just one that has compromises that may not be obvious. I've worked on one vintage road racer that used the idea. I think it was a Cooper, but it was been a long time ago.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

FWIW I don't think that it's a silly idea, just one that has compromises that may not be obvious. I've worked on one vintage road racer that used the idea. I think it was a Cooper, but it was been a long time ago.

Probably something Colin Chapman designed. 'Every piece should have two functions'.

 

[Hank]

I'm sure the tubes are going to get hot and i'm not worried about it. I guess i'll just have to paint "CAUTION HOT" on the tubes. As far as heavy, it'll only be about 5' each way. I'm not 100% that the rad is going in the back anyway. I'll see when i get the engine in if i have enough room up front.

Ok back to Land Rovers.

Even if you do have room for it up front, I think it should go in the back.

 

[Nadir_E]

My SO is borrowing the D90 so I haven't had a chance to test the viscous coupling, but will try to do so this weekend. In the meantime, here are a few pics:

Shroud is present and judging by the decals, factory original:

Belts are genuine LR and don't appear to be frayed. From this side the radiator fins don't appear to be rotted / clogged:

View of the radiator from the front - again, no excessive clogging or rotting from what I can see:

The overflow bottle didn't have any obvious signs of having puked up coolant (never known it to), and the gasket *appears* to be in good shape - no cuts / tears, etc.

How would I test the overflow cap to see if it's keeping pressure besides looking for spewed coolant (which isn't happening)?

thanks!
-Nadir

 

[James86004]

How would I test the overflow cap to see if it's keeping pressure besides looking for spewed coolant (which isn't happening)?

thanks!
-Nadir

You can put a pressure gauge on the cooling system somewhere, and find a way to pump a few psi of air into it, and see if the cap releases the pressure. Or, since a new cap is something like $8, you can just replace it if have any doubts about it.

Looking at the photo, though, I doubt if that is your problem.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Some vehicles have important shrouds in front of the rad. Between the rad and fascia. I don't know if the D1 did, but that's what I was referring to. I had to remove mine on my D2 when I installed the bumper.

 

[muskyman]

Some vehicles have important shrouds in front of the rad. Between the rad and fascia. I don't know if the D1 did, but that's what I was referring to. I had to remove mine on my D2 when I installed the bumper.

yes this is correct and I agree with you, shrouds route the air , prevent the recycling of hot air back through the radiator and increase the effciency of the fan.

this is most important at slow speeds when the truck is almost 100% dependent on the fan/fans for the air flow over the radiator.

factory fan shrouds should be left in place if at all possible and attention should also be made on such things as aftermarket skid sheilds that have been known to create a perfect funnel to recirculate hot air from the engine compartmnent straight back into the front of the radiator in some cases.

This doesent change the fact that all the other components of the cooling system must be in good working condition to combine and cool the engine. where I would say this does come into play would be if shrouds were removed when everything else was working perfect. This may drop the total effciency to a reduced level that only shows itself when another component starts breaking down such as a radiator becoming clogged. You then may think the removal of the shroud was not at all involved with the new cooling issue yet the reduced % of cooling that it caused made the new condition show up sooner because of the changed air flow.

 

[Geo14cux]

Nadir_E just looking through the fan at the rad doesn't tell you much. Pull the 2 retainers & the shroud rock it back & really look at it.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Maybe somewhat related... I want to remove the plastic undertray on my D2 because it's always in the way. Any reason not to, cooling or otherwise?