LC vs Trooper vs Montero

[dylanblada]

I'm posting this here in order to avoid as much brand bias as possible.

I'm in the early stages of planning a trip for two 20-something guys to make a trip from the US to Ushuaia. Then back up the East coast of S. America. This will be in about 3 years.
I plan to have a budget of $20k max for vehicle and mods including fridge, some armor, winch, suspension, tires, and spare parts.

I have many ideas about vehicle choice, but 3 of the top choices so far are: 95+ FZJ80, 2000+ Isuzu Trooper, and a 95+ Montero SR. My main question is how do these compare as far as strength, durability, and reliability.

I would like to keep the vehicle after the trip for as long as possible for other trips. Also, the low price of these vehicles ($5k-$7k now) means I might have funds left over for a diesel conversion. As everyone knows, diesel is THE way to go if possible, but there are very few suitable vehicles available in the US.

I could go on, but I'd mainly like feedback on how these three compare as far as durability goes. Thanks.

 

[jh504]

Welcome to the site! That sounds like a great trip. You could use any one of those rigs for the trip and probably be a happy camper. I am going to go ahead and say that the FZJ80 is going to be the best choice though. Get one with the e-lockers throw on a winch and some armor and you are ready to go anywhere. The strength and build quality outweighs the other two and you have support worldwide for replacement parts. There will be a few folks who sing a different tune but the LC is the best choice.

 

[dylanblada]

Thanks for the welcome! I've actually been pouring over this site and a few others for at least 6 months to get a good base of knowledge of all he options.

The 80 Series (or even the 100) is what I keep coming back to for the reasons you mentioned. I have a couple of concerns with the 80 though. First, the fuel consumption is terrible, especially loaded down with accessories and gear. And secondly, the I-6 is VERY reliable, but it is also underpowered. Not to mention in high altitudes where the air is thin. The other vehicles I mentioned (and many other ideas I have) address some of this. The V8 in the 100 series would be a great improvement for power. And although fuel costs are not the most important factor, if I can save $1500 on fuel over the trip, that would be great. I think the other trucks are supposed to get a bit better MPG.

Of course, I did mention the diesel conversion idea. Diesel is appealing to me not only because of the better MPG, but increased range and less need to carry spare fuel cans. I also like the ability to more safely do water crossings and the low end torque. I know that the cost of a shop to do a diesel conversion would outweigh fuel saving for a long time, but the range and peace of mind would be worth a lot too. Of course, I would prefer to have a factory diesel 80 series or better even a diesel 100, they are very difficult to get in the US and I do want to keep the vehicle for a long time.

 

[jh504]

I understand your issue with fuel mileage. My thought has always been that I would probably make up for the gas mileage in less maintenance costs. A diesel would be excellent. I know of a Diesel converted 80 for sale right now on Mud, which is good place to learn more about LC's (if you havnt already been there). The 100 series is an excellent platform as well with alot of room on the inside. I have always been partial to SFA's but the 100 is a tough truck. They also have an AWESOME ride quality on rough surfaces, which will pay off after a few hundred miles on dirt.

 

[dylanblada]

'Mud is one other other sites I've been all over besides this one. I'm not choosy about front axles as long as they are strong. I did see that diesel 80. It just sold on eBay for a great price, not quite ready to buy yet though:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chev...8529691?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item45f551ea1b

Definitely a good point about maintenance costs and parts availability. A diesel 100 would be PERFECT, but I think the conversion costs would be prohibitive. I'll defiantly be looking into getting a factory diesel from Europe in some way.

Thanks again.

 

[chasespeed]

I've had a few Isuzus... 2 Rodeos and a Trooper....

The 93 trooper was stolen with over 230k on it....

The 99 Rodeo I sold back in 08, with 150k on it....

And my 2000 2wd had only 37k on it.

None of my vehicles was stock....

They all saw some abuse.

None of them ever left me stranded....

My 2 cents..
Chase

 

[dylanblada]

Thanks Chase. I know Isuzus are supposed to be quite reliable. I think I've read that some drivetrain components are more heavily built than the FZJ80. If that's true, then its a big plus for the Trooper. And although the argument that a well maintained truck in this category shoul last a LONG time, its still true that a much newer trooper can be had for less than a middle of the road Cruiser. Plus I do like the part time 4wd option on the Trooper.

 

[cruisertoy]

I'd seriously consider availability of parts and familiarity with your rig where ever you travel. MPG should not be as much a factor. Yes it might be nice to have an extra couple grand for the trip with a rig that gets better milage but delay the trip for an extra few weeks to a few months and earn some extra money to make up the difference. A rig that gets great milage but you have to delay part of the trip for a few weeks while parts come in isn't the rig I'd want.

That said, I've read about people making this trip in a Nissan 240Z. I've got pictures of it mudding through the amazon somewhere. What vehicle you need probably depends more on your route than anything. There are a lot of people on this board that have made this trip so hopefully they chime in.

 

[dylanblada]

Parts availability is definitely a factor. That's one of the reasons I'm not really considering Jeeps, for instance (I guess I just assume there aren't a lot of Jeeps). From what I've read these vehicles are at least somewhat common most places. Plus that's why I want something strong. I've read some of the trip reports of people going in unlikely vehicles, but I want the ability to reliably go off the beaten path (both in Latin America and the US).

Related to this, how might a 3/4 ton Ford/GM/Dodge diesel 4x4 with an extended cab and a topper work for this trip? Are they represented well down there?

 

[chasespeed]

Parts avail for any of the rigs you mentioned.... well, most of these vehicles we have domestically, which are available abroad, have different powerplants. I.E. diesel..... just something else to consider.

As far as a domestic truck.... why not?

What is the budget you're working with? What are you realistically looking to with the truck, how much cargo, passengers, etc....

Chase

 

[dylanblada]

As for the differences in ROW models, that's why I've been looking on ExPo and IH8Mud amongst other sites. That's also why I want to get the most reliable rig I can get so that I have to deal with as little problems as possible. It seems that most of the Japanese rigs are most commonly sold with diesel engines, but are usually also sold with gasoline engines too. This is why I would love to get a diesel 80 or 100 series. I've done a ton of research on the legalities and I really want to speak to a Registered Importer (RI) and an Independent Commercial Importer (ICI) about specific costs when I'm ready to buy. Barring that, I'll look into diesel conversions. Made especially appealing if the truck is less expensive to start with. In either case, if something really appealing came up, I may raise the budget or rely less on outfitting.

One downside to a 3/4 ton truck would be cost. It looks like to get something in decent shape that isn't too old, its already pushing $15k. Another issue would be sheer weight. Most of these trucks weigh in the neighborhood of 5500-6000 lbs empty. So not sure of the effects of that weight on off road capability (sand, mud) or on some roads.

Like I said, this is about 3 years out (2.5 until I buy) but right now I'll be looking to spend no more than $20k on the vehicle and outfitting. I would include a fridge, front bumper at least, a winch and recovery gear, some spare parts, any preventative maintenance, possibly a aux. fuel tank, upgraded suspension and possibly larger tires.

Realistically, I want to be able to deal with most off road situations excluding real rock crawling. That means deep mud, sand, and snow, possibly a water crossing here or there, some rough trails... things like that. The vehicle would be set up for two 6' + 225lbs + guys to do a trip lasting 4-6 months. After the main trip through Latin America, I want to keep it for vacation/weekend trips in the US or Canada.

Cargo wise, I haven't calculated the weight yet (mainly depends on how much extra fuel we need), but we will be mostly camping on (RTT) or next the truck (hotels if the weather is bad or safety might be an issue).

 

[jh504]

Downsides to a domestic rig are going to be a much higher chance of having a mechanical failure and a harder time finding parts for it when it does. I love a 3/4 ton diesel but have given up on domestic trucks from personal experience. None of my imported trucks have ever let me down, ALL of my domestic trucks have left me on the side of the road at one time or another (Jeeps not included).

Since you wont be able to realistically import anything newer than 25 years have you thought about flying down and buying something when you get there?

 

[dylanblada]

Great comments.
I'm mostly with on the domestic truck reliability aspect. I've not had good luck either.

I have thought about buying in say Mexico or Panama even and that is a possibility, but I think it would be a shame to have something so cool (say an HDJ100) and have to get rid of it. I'd like to keep the truck for a long time, but I haven't ruled this plan out.

One issue is that when people mention importing, most people disregard it saying it will be too expensive. We what would it cost to get a LHD HDJ80 from say Germany and have it federalized here? That's why I want to actually talk to an RI and/or an ICI when I'm ready to buy (say 2 years from now) to get a ballpark estimate on conversion costs. If it can be done for say $10k I might still do it. The value for something like this is relative.

One hindrance to more modern cars is that it seems the EPA has the OBDII requirement for any car newer than 1996 I think. So it would have to be something older than that to be feasible for conversion.

Dylan

 

[dylanblada]

In fact, if you check the newly updated NHSTA List of Nonconforming Vehicles Eligible for Importation: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Cars/rules/import/

You'll see that the '90-'96 Land Cruiser has been deemed capable of being modified to be legal in the US. I want to get the document (its not online) that give the specifics of what need to be changed and how this pertains to a diesel model (it doesn't specify on the list). This shows that someone has done this before and it can be done.

 

[jh504]

It has definitely been done, but it seems to have been done at a very high price. There was a new imported 70 series for sale for something like $50,000 not too long ago.

I do know of an early 90s 4 door Hilux truck for sale for $9,000 but it has a chevy 4.3 engine.

Have you talked to Outback Imports? I bet the easiest thing would be to find something that has been imported to Canada and then bring it to the states.

You could also buy a front clip with diesel engine for around $7,000 and then there is a guy in Colorado selling new 70 series bodies for $7,000. It would be a totally cusom job but you may could get it done for under $20,000.