Minimum EV Range Requirement for Touring Western U.S.

[grizzlypath]

I’d like all that too, and I’m sure we’ll get there, but what kinda rig now gets 400 minimum range when towing? That would be the bees knees, surely, but that’s a figment of our imagination in ICE and EV realities.

Someone's EV requirements might be greater than an ICE due to the (current) increased risk associated with running out of charge when on a trail. An ICE might only get 300mi, but for remote travel you could bring additional fuel where that is not really possible right now.

I know this thread has derailed a bit, but I think the original topic was long range touring.

 

[NevadaLover]

Nope. The great majority of charging will take place at home or in parking spots using 110v.

"Will" being the operative word!
Big question is "when"!

 

[ABBB]

Someone's EV requirements might be greater than an ICE due to the (current) increased risk associated with running out of charge when on a trail. An ICE might only get 300mi, but for remote travel you could bring additional fuel where that is not really possible right now.

I know this thread has derailed a bit, but I think the original topic was long range touring.

This is exactly why I’m looking forward to the coming wave/next generation of hybrid vehicles. The Bronco will have a hybrid, there’s rumors of a hybrid LC, there’s already a hybrid Defender for those that like the evolution of that vehicle. Many more to come. I’d like for my next vehicle to be a hybrid. Putter around town on a charge, have a full-size fuel tank for off-road and long range travel. Regenerative charging/braking will aid and put the battery to use on long-range trips as well. I have a 2008 LR3 with a steel bumper, 33s, a winch, and racks. I absolutely hate that I get 12mpg. What a waste of fuel. But I tow a 2000lb camper trailer and I get everywhere I want to go, so it is what it is for now. In 2-5 years I’ll have a different truck that better aligns with my values and can offset some of its fuel consumption with running at times off electricity. I’m eager for that day, but will be patient for the tech to arrive. And I pray my Land Rover lasts that long!!!

 

[dbhost]

I’d like all that too, and I’m sure we’ll get there, but what kinda rig now gets 400 minimum range when towing? That would be the bees knees, surely, but that’s a figment of our imagination in ICE and EV realities.

ICE has the ability to carry spare fuel, oversized / extra fuel tanks specifically for towing. Plenty of farm trucks have a 100+ gallon diesel tank in the bed... It's all a trade off no doubt. I would love EV tech to be massaged more, by the same token, we need to consider alternate fueling possibility for ICE, the tech is far from useless, we just went down a specific rabbit hole and haven't considered too many options all that seriously...

 

[ABBB]

ICE has the ability to carry spare fuel, oversized / extra fuel tanks specifically for towing. Plenty of farm trucks have a 100+ gallon diesel tank in the bed... It's all a trade off no doubt. I would love EV tech to be massaged more, by the same token, we need to consider alternate fueling possibility for ICE, the tech is far from useless, we just went down a specific rabbit hole and haven't considered too many options all that seriously...

I have to believe these discussions are happening somewhere. There will always be a place for fossil fuels, and while public conversation/marketing has shifted dramatically to EV (promotionally-minded, no doubt), you can bet your last nickel the people who pull strings are considering all options and how to capitalize on all practical needs. I don’t think we’re down a rabbit hole at all, but I do think that perception is understandable given public discourse on EVs of late. Where EV isn’t practical, there will for many years to come still be fossil fuel usage. It won’t need to be the dominant fuel source for vehicles forever more, and to capture and massage our imaginations governments and businesses are directing conversation and fantasy in certain directions. I look forward to having an EV, and I have no doubt that farmers and wilderness firefighters and many others will still rely on diesel and gasoline for their fleets.

 

[rruff]

I think a lot of good evidence has been brought up that shows why we won't be phasing out ICEs for many decades. Infrastructure takes lots of $$$ and time, and ICEs will still be better for many applications.

 

[dbhost]

I have to believe these discussions are happening somewhere. There will always be a place for fossil fuels, and while public conversation/marketing has shifted dramatically to EV (promotionally-minded, no doubt), you can bet your last nickel the people who pull strings are considering all options and how to capitalize on all practical needs. I don’t think we’re down a rabbit hole at all, but I do think that perception is understandable given public discourse on EVs of late. Where EV isn’t practical, there will for many years to come still be fossil fuel usage. It won’t need to be the dominant fuel source for vehicles forever more, and to capture and massage our imaginations governments and businesses are directing conversation and fantasy in certain directions. I look forward to having an EV, and I have no doubt that farmers and wilderness firefighters and many others will still rely on diesel and gasoline for their fleets.

For an urban get to work vehicle. I would absolutely love an EV. For road tripping / off roading / overlanding, I'm sticking with gas, at least for now... I would hate to be say in the summer between Houston and San Antonio on one of the big empty sections of interstate and watching my charge level dropping like a Houston summer rain storm. Not a lot of places to get off the interstate let alone charge up out there...

I totally get the appeal of EVs, and yeah for a get to work kind of rig not a bad idea, honestly if they would improve public transit here, I would be happy for a get from the house to the park & ride and back type car... Grocery getter, run into town to visit with my in laws kind of thing... Although I have a friend with a first gen Nissan Leaf that is lucky to see 50 miles on a charge... I think maybe a Hybrid might be a better option, at least for now.

 

[calicamper]

So first thing long distance towing rigs will be hybrid not straight EV.
The typical house HVAC AC uses 2x the amount of daily power a typical EV owner uses in a day. Several EV owners during the heat wave charged up 100% typically thats not the norm. With anticipation of using the EV to power their house if a outage were to happen. None of them had an outage. A coworker of my wife had an outage every day 4 days in a row at 4pm due to faulty underground transformer in his 12yr old modern development. He used a portable generator via transfer switch to keep fans and refrigerators going.

CA grid last week set an all time max power record without official rolling blackouts. In fact one grid engineer mentioned had this happened 5 yrs ago CA would have had a Texas style state wide grid crash. But since we have been upgrading the grid we avoided crashing it.

Charging EV owners rarely charge 100% for one its not good for the battery and after90% the charge rate drops off a cliff ie gets stupid slow. The fastest charging is typically 20-80% and that’s what most public EV users charge at. 20-40 minutes typically.

I just heard Ford will have a plug in hybrid AWD Maverick 30ish mile EV range. I’ll sell my SLk350 fun car for that!

 

[calicamper]

Someone's EV requirements might be greater than an ICE due to the (current) increased risk associated with running out of charge when on a trail. An ICE might only get 300mi, but for remote travel you could bring additional fuel where that is not really possible right now.

I know this thread has derailed a bit, but I think the original topic was long range touring.

I have Run our Fusion Energi plugin hybrid 730 miles between gas station visits. Heck the COVID shut down it went 14 months between gas station visits. All our local trips are EV only. Its awesome. Add that I have solar on my house its even better. My average electric bill in 2015 was $450 with high bills 3-4 months a yr $600. I designed a solar setup 8.2kwh system Enphase micro inverters all 25yr manufacturers warranty stuff. Cost me $18,000 after 30% gov tax credit. Our electric bill is zero- we manage our use and run net-net easily. Gas worst bill was $200. Typically its $30-$60.

The plug-in hybrid has a lifetime gas mileage of 62mpg. At 80,000 it has about 60% pad life left on the brake pads. I change the oil every 7000. Its been awesome!!!
Hybrid plug in truck!! Hell yes!!

Full EV car for local regional use absolutely..

 

[Jupiter58]

Nope. The great majority of charging will take place at home or in parking spots using 110v.

Except that this thread is about the infrastructure required to overland with an ev and is about public access while traveling, not about private or company facilities.
I also doubt that companies will put in the infrastructure to charge hundreds or a thousand Evs at one facility.

I did read an interesting article about fords ev division requiring 1 high tier charger just to allow fulfillment of orders and 3 chargers to allow dealer to carry inventory. And that would be about 1.2 million to add the three chargers.

 

[Jupiter58]

Oh, and the last extended power outage we had in our area, the gas pumps at the local convenience store didn't work either. They use electric pumps, not the hand / gravity pump like Billiebob's.

They should require gas stations to have back up generators as they do in most hurricane states where people actually have a feasible plan for power outages

Oh, wait. They outlawed generators in California.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

I’d like all that too, and I’m sure we’ll get there, but what kinda rig now gets 400 minimum range when towing? That would be the bees knees, surely, but that’s a figment of our imagination in ICE and EV realities.

This one.

Just a regular Max tow F150 with an 3.5 EcoBoost, 3:55 gears, 10 speed transmission and a 36 gallon tank.

Nothing unique or special. Just a run of the mill F150.

Trailer is 23' hitch to bumper and 5,000 lbs wet.



When not towing 650 miles is not out of the question.
Cruise set to 65-70, full tank...Usually pulling about 1,500 rpm at that speed.
Might lose a mpg or two when I put one size up A/T's on.

 

[calicamper]

They should require gas stations to have back up generators as they do in most hurricane states where people actually have a feasible plan for power outages

Oh, wait. They outlawed generators in California.

Electrify America (owned by VW) entered into a contract with Tesla last year for tesla grid battery systems. The intent is to beef up remote charging stations with battery capacity. Primary reason is to address limited power at remote sites ie handle faster charging needs and as backup power. First areas to see these will be in AZ,Utah,Colorado

Ca generator ban is a ban on dirty generators. If my 9.9ob is fuel injected and meets CA carb requirements so can a generator. Disclaimer I have a 3500watt generator for my house, most rural CA folks have them. The law only bans the sale of dirty generators. No ban on their use.

CA is the 14th biggest economy in the world it leads by example when it comes to product safety and environmental efforts.
Do nothing- nothing happens. Do something- stuff happens.

 

[ABBB]

This one.

Just a regular Max tow F150 with an 3.5 EcoBoost, 3:55 gears, 10 speed transmission and a 36 gallon tank.

Nothing unique or special. Just a run of the mill F150.

Trailer is 23' hitch to bumper and 5,000 lbs wet.

View attachment 742742

When not towing 650 miles is not out of the question.
Cruise set to 65-70, full tank...Usually pulling about 1,500 rpm at that speed.
Might lose a mpg or two when I put one size up A/T's on.

Nice truck and camper! What year is the F150 pictured? I ask because my 2008 LR3 that I tow with does about 11-14mpg, loaded or unloaded (I only tow 2000lbs). Your F-150 averages 11mpg if we divide your 400 mile range by the size of your tank. So having a larger fuel tank really makes all the difference. This wasn’t an option on the LR3, nor were some of the technologies available then that were built into your Ford 3.5EcoBoost, which makes it a much more fuel efficient engine than my V8 pig. My point is, the technology of ICE evolved, and in a relatively small window of time. I fully expect EV batteries to do the same. Lots of money on the line here, that motivates people and inspires creativity and drives innovation. We’ll get your numbers out of an EV truck inside of a decade I believe. The network of charging stations is going to explode with growth. Subsidies and tax breaks will be offered where they aren’t already. One of our great assets as a species is our problem solving (our problem making too, but that’s a different thread ?) and we’ll get all this sorted and then look back and barely remember it was ever not that way.

 

[Todd n Natalie]

Nice truck and camper! What year is the F150 pictured? I ask because my 2008 LR3 that I tow with does about 11-14mpg, loaded or unloaded (I only tow 2000lbs). Your F-150 averages 11mpg if we divide your 400 mile range by the size of your tank. So having a larger fuel tank really makes all the difference. This wasn’t an option on the LR3, nor were some of the technologies available then that were built into your Ford 3.5EcoBoost, which makes it a much more fuel efficient engine than my V8 pig. My point is, the technology of ICE evolved, and in a relatively small window of time. I fully expect EV batteries to do the same. Lots of money on the line here, that motivates people and inspires creativity and drives innovation. We’ll get your numbers out of an EV truck inside of a decade I believe. The network of charging stations is going to explode with growth. Subsidies and tax breaks will be offered where they aren’t already. One of our great assets as a species is our problem solving (our problem making too, but that’s a different thread ?) and we’ll get all this sorted and then look back and barely remember it was ever not that way.

It's a 2022. Yeah, 11 mpg towing sounds about right. I usually get about half the mileage I do when not towing.

I'm getting better mileage towing with this truck than my previous '15 that had a 5.0L V8, 6 speed auto and 3:73 axle.

Ideally I would have liked if Ford (or any half ton truck manufacture really) had offered a PHEV F150 instead of the PowerBoost built in generator. Something that would allow me to get to work and back on battery power and still have an ICE engine for longer road trips and towing.

Maybe when this truck is due to be replaced, the tech and infrastructure will have improved. Infrastructure is important when towing as well because even if I can make 400 miles towing, I'll still need to recharge at some point.

We usually camp at powered sites, so was thinking something like this splitter could even work to power the trailer and charge the truck at the same time:

Not sure if it would work or if it would just trip the breaker?