More proof that Jeep is the leader in 4x4 overland vehicles

[jdillard]

That first video brings back some good memories. I'd forgotten the drama that seems to accompany everything they do down there, lol. Adventure!

The 110 has always been something of a dream car, but unfortunately not a particularly practical choice in the US unless you've got money to burn. But they win for sure on pure strength and capacity, and they've got a lock on the romance of it all as well. The downside I remember as being a backbreaking ride, with really bad seats. I especially didn't like the stadium style rear seats, which as a passenger always left me with a stiff neck trying to get a decent view out the windows. In the driver's seat though, you're invincible; or at least you feel that way.

I remember that even then, 15 years ago, sentiment seemed to me to have shifted toward the Landcruiser. Those I met who owned Defenders were obviously defensive about them - mostly to their wives, lol, who were quite vocal in wanting to swap to a Toyota. Still, I understand the allure and if I had the money, I probably couldn't resist owning one for a while, if only to say that I had.

I don't remember seeing any wranglers while I was there, but again that was 15 years ago. I do remember seeing quite a few imports from India.

 

[rlynch356]

Very few defenders in India (Tax is 100% on imports), and no jeeps in my 13 years of going there 4-5x times a year. China has more jeeps of course cherokee's and the like mostly but i'm seeing wranglers as well now. I thought english at Beijing Jeep back in the early 90's when i was in school there.
Fun times

Defender production is winding down, so is demand outside of europe. Everyone is looking forward at the new defender (as am I) which will be a world product and include sales in the US.

Which is better? Depends on what day it is and what i'm doing

 

[FJC Scout]

Die die die thread. Please


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[k9lestat]

I know, right?

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[Omar Brannstrom]

Hi

I have to remind some of the kind folks here that it is a Jeep thread and some of us have Jeeps and can offcourse be a little bit biased:sombrero:
I think it is better to contribute to the thread with some intresting articles or facts for us who loves 4x4 vehicles.
Another vehicle that look promising is the Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro, but are not for sale in Europe. Looks bigger than a Wrangler and have probably more comfort and cool electronics than the Wrangler. Lacks the cool back spare wheel.
Aniway and this is posted on toyotaplanet (so maybe biased) but still intresting article.
Jeep Wrangler unlimited (Sahara?) vs Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro
http://toyotaplanet.com/2014-jeep-wrangler-unlimited-vs-toyota-4runner-trd-pro/

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

Found another article from Toyota
2014 Toyota 4Runner vs 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
http://news.toyotaofboerne.com/2014-toyota-4runner-vs-2014-jeep-wrangler-unlimited/

Is the Toyota small in the back seat "Wrangler is the better choice if your rear passengers will need room to stretch out" And I think that the Wrangler is small in the backseat, Toyota even smaller? Could be one of the reason that the Cargo area is shorter on the Wrangler due that the have bigger space in the rear seat area, and even compared to the Defender.

I offen have a adult in the rear backseat in my Wrangler and they need space when we are out and taking photos of birds and animals when using the Wrangler as a photoblind.

 

[silvElise]

Hi

Here are the latest sales statistics in Sweden for September 2014, one month

Jeep Wrangler: 157 units
Landrover Discovery 4: 93
Toyota Landcruiser: 66
Landrover Defender: 23
Mercedes Geländewagen: 13

My Apartment in Sweden:coffeedrink:

Just driving around a bit

This damn thread and others that seem to be popping up here make me realize I don't enjoy my time on this forum as much anymore.

I enjoy playful brand loyalty teasing as much as the next but this use to be a respectful forum of people enjoying the act of overlanding/exploring helping each other out. Not a damn pissing contest with poor/irrelevant information.

 

[ivan.gonzalez.7146557]

Don't care about the sales info just know that she got me there and back with no issues

 

[Omar Brannstrom]

This damn thread and others that seem to be popping up here make me realize I don't enjoy my time on this forum as much anymore.

I enjoy playful brand loyalty teasing as much as the next but this use to be a respectful forum of people enjoying the act of overlanding/exploring helping each other out. Not a damn pissing contest with poor/irrelevant information.

Howdy:luxhello:

I dont really understand why some get so upset over a thread in Expeditionportal that is about vehicle traveled vehicles and this sub thread that is about Jeep and we discuss Jeeps that is a vehicle, whats wrong with that. I mean comments are like "Jeep sucks", "I will puke", "close the thread" etc If some thread do no not intrest me I dont read it, why read some thread that is not of intrest. All articles and facts that is linked in this thread that You mean is poor/irrelevant information is not written by folks here on the thread it is from 4x4 magazines and other etc and You may send them a e-mail that there test is poor or so. If any one find better and more relevant information or test or statistics about overlanding vehicles, please provide them because I like to read 4x4 test and vehicle tests between different vehicles etc because I find it very intresting on a deeper level and I read a lot about Defender and Geländewagen, Landcruiser etc because they are very intresting to read about . Comparisson test aint new, You have that between speakers, monitors, computers etc: I am on many forums like Hometheater etc and there are many tests and discussions and I have never written Yamaha sucks or close the thread, I will puke etc
Even the staff on Expeditionportal publish articles between vehicles that I published here before that You seem to think is "damn pissing contest with poor/irrelevant information" http://expeditionportal.com/why-the-jeep-wrangler-is-the-new-land-rover-defender/
http://expeditionportal.com/top-10-used-overland-vehicles/
Good news is that Iam waiting for a test between Landcruiser 70 series and Wrangler, the internet page is under construction, but will be intresting to read because I am intrested of tests and some of You are also that:drool:
Have a nice day

 

[jdillard]

The problem with the thread is the way in which the OP framed it. Declaring any vehicle the "ultimate" is asking for an argument, especially when you base it around some video that doesn't really say anything. If it were me, I'd change the title, but I suspect the site prefers it the way it is, given some of the recent front page articles - controversy drives page hits.

The substance in the thread is that Jeep is (quickly) becoming a worldwide brand, and is no longer a vehicle that's practical only in North America. That's been a long standing and perfectly valid criticism among overlanders. 20 years ago, I'd have never considered taking a Jeep outside the US/Canada for any stretch. Today, I would at least consider taking one to South America, Europe, Australia, and parts of Asia and Africa. It still doesn't have the worldwide support of Toyota or Land Rover, but frankly I find it pretty amazing the progress they've made.

The JKU was a watershed moment for the brand, IMO. Why it took so long for the company to decide to combine the utility of a cherokee with the ability of the wrangler is beyond me. But finally they did, and the popularity of the vehicle speaks for itself. The remaining weaknesses, capacity and reliability, both need to be addressed, but at least the brand seems to be headed in the right direction. We're all left to ponder why Jeep doesn't offer the J8 in a civilian form.

 

[jdillard]

Found another article from Toyota
2014 Toyota 4Runner vs 2014 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
http://news.toyotaofboerne.com/2014-toyota-4runner-vs-2014-jeep-wrangler-unlimited/

Is the Toyota small in the back seat "Wrangler is the better choice if your rear passengers will need room to stretch out" And I think that the Wrangler is small in the backseat, Toyota even smaller? Could be one of the reason that the Cargo area is shorter on the Wrangler due that the have bigger space in the rear seat area, and even compared to the Defender.

I didn't find the 4runner rear seat to be any smaller. It's certainly much more comfortable. The 4runner has a lot of advantages over the JKU - it's far more refined, the fit and finish is better, the towing and load carrying capacities are better, more comfortable, better road manners, much better visibility, more reliable, and just a more modern vehicle in every sense. The disadvantages are that it's not as capable off road (though capable enough for almost everyone), isn't nearly as customizable, costs a little bit more, and has a face that only a mother warthog could love.

The thing is this - in every practical, objective measure, the 4runner is a better vehicle for what my wife and I want to use it for. Yet, I can't for the life of me get excited about it. It's a vehicle that's utterly void of romance. Romance seems to be a dumb reason on which to base a vehicle choice, but the truth is that it is important. These grand overland trips we take, or imagine ourselves taking, are driven purely by some romantic notion of travel - a desire to explore, to be self sufficient and to be more intimately connected to our surroundings. I think in today's world, where help is almost always a cell phone call away, we have to fool ourselves a bit into thinking we're being more adventurous than we are. Not that we can't place ourselves in situations outside that bubble, but it's becoming more and more rare to find ourselves in those situations without a purposeful attempt to get there.

I was in the Yukon with my wife last year (Carcross) and we decided to check out some mountain bike trails there that have gotten a lot of press. On the way up the mountain, we passed a convoy of Wranglers on some off-road tour. The road wasn't the best, and was likely rough enough that they all thought they were going places that no one would even attempt in anything other than a tough 4x4, at least right up to the point when we passed them in a ratty white Ford panel van. Of course those Jeeps can go places the van couldn't, but the point is that there is plenty of adventure out there that doesn't require anything more than a willingness to add a few scratches and dents to your humdrum sedan.

So I'd argue that a large part of the JKU's popularity lies in the fact that it encompasses this romantic notion of adventure. It looks the part, much like a Defender or an old FJ, or some monstrous Unicat. And I think that's a great thing. Perhaps on my list of vehicle requirements, I should place "adds excitement and romance to the journey" at the top.

 

[JIMBO]

:sombrero: That comment interests me--"We passed the jeeps"--

Kinda like. "I've gotta 2014 Sport and I've passed Rubicons"-

:costumed-smiley-007:bike_rider: JIMBO

 

[kojackJKU]

I didn't find the 4runner rear seat to be any smaller. It's certainly much more comfortable. The 4runner has a lot of advantages over the JKU - it's far more refined, the fit and finish is better, the towing and load carrying capacities are better, more comfortable, better road manners, much better visibility, more reliable, and just a more modern vehicle in every sense. The disadvantages are that it's not as capable off road (though capable enough for almost everyone), isn't nearly as customizable, costs a little bit more, and has a face that only a mother warthog could love.

The thing is this - in every practical, objective measure, the 4runner is a better vehicle for what my wife and I want to use it for. Yet, I can't for the life of me get excited about it. It's a vehicle that's utterly void of romance. Romance seems to be a dumb reason on which to base a vehicle choice, but the truth is that it is important. These grand overland trips we take, or imagine ourselves taking, are driven purely by some romantic notion of travel - a desire to explore, to be self sufficient and to be more intimately connected to our surroundings. I think in today's world, where help is almost always a cell phone call away, we have to fool ourselves a bit into thinking we're being more adventurous than we are. Not that we can't place ourselves in situations outside that bubble, but it's becoming more and more rare to find ourselves in those situations without a purposeful attempt to get there.

I was in the Yukon with my wife last year (Carcross) and we decided to check out some mountain bike trails there that have gotten a lot of press. On the way up the mountain, we passed a convoy of Wranglers on some off-road tour. The road wasn't the best, and was likely rough enough that they all thought they were going places that no one would even attempt in anything other than a tough 4x4, at least right up to the point when we passed them in a ratty white Ford panel van. Of course those Jeeps can go places the van couldn't, but the point is that there is plenty of adventure out there that doesn't require anything more than a willingness to add a few scratches and dents to your humdrum sedan.

So I'd argue that a large part of the JKU's popularity lies in the fact that it encompasses this romantic notion of adventure. It looks the part, much like a Defender or an old FJ, or some monstrous Unicat. And I think that's a great thing. Perhaps on my list of vehicle requirements, I should place "adds excitement and romance to the journey" at the top.

Yep, Toyota's are bland boring vehicles. Well besides the Crusier on that Alaska off road show. that one is awesome. but for the most part - bland, boring, numb, and of course don't forget rusty!

 

[jdillard]

That comment interests me--"We passed the jeeps"--

Kinda like. "I've gotta 2014 Sport and I've passed Rubicons"-

I think you know what I mean. It's not that the Jeeps weren't more capable, or that people don't need vehicles that capable; but we all know that 90% of off-pavement doesn't require a 4x4, let alone a Jeep. (And yes, we also all know that the last 10% can at times make all the difference. I think my philosophy in that regard has become that you build a vehicle for that 10%, then hope you never have to use it. But that discussion is a tangent of a tangent.)

My point is that those guys likely felt like they were having an adventure even though they weren't anywhere a 2wd couldn't go. You can interpret that as a bad thing, but I don't necessarily see it that way, at least so long as their illusion remains in tact. Now maybe those guys weren't under that illusion at all, or maybe being passed by a panel van just made them laugh - but that's not much of a story to tell.

I mentioned before that my wife and I toured southern Africa in a rented VW Polo. If you want to go on a Safari, you can go to a travel agent, and they'll put together a trip where you'll fly to Jo'burg and then from there out to some 'remote' camp adjoining Kruger. You'll sleep in a tent, (a luxurious tent, but a tent nonetheless) and in the morning be taken out in a Defender to the park. They'll bring a rifle and everything. You'll see every animal you want because all the tour companies keep track of where they are. That night they'll feed you wild boar and antelope cooked over an open fire. The people who own these tour companies know what they're doing; and I promise, you'll feel like you're on a real adventure - immersed in a different time, a continent away from civilization. Alternatively, you can rent a little car and drive up from Durban, stay in a nice B&B just outside the park, have breakfast at McDonalds*, drive into the park for the day, and eat at a restaurant that night. You'll spend a lot less money, and see the same stuff, only you have to spend a bit more time finding the animals on your own.

So in the end who had the best adventure? Well, it's the parable of the cave I guess. If you don't know that you can rent the car and do the same thing and that there are towns all around and even a pretty big city just a few miles away, then the people who took the tour arguably had the best adventure, because they were fully immersed in the illusion of what they thought they were doing. Conversely, if you are aware, then taking the tour would probably seem a bit hokey (and expensive!) and doing the self drive is by far the best adventure because not only did you do the same things, but you did it on your own, saw lots more stuff along the way and back, met some people, etc. I've thought about that a lot since then, because I've met many people who've done tours, some of whom considered them to be the most adventurous thing of their whole life. I hear that, and of course inevitably I feel a bit smug that I know something they don't, but it also makes me feel a bit jaded and oddly envious of their experience; and maybe concerned that my own adventures weren't all that 'genuine' either.

*for the record, we did not eat breakfast at McDonalds. Sadly, it was an option.

 

[Jurfie]

Well said, jdillard.