What truck/camper combo won't shake apart off road, i.e. Dalton Hwy?
- Thread starter 84FLH
- Start date
rruff
Explorer
Look up the specs. https://www.toyotires.com/media/3729/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20200723.pdf
These are the same diameter:
325/65r18 (what I have) at 50 psi is 3195 lbs
285/75r18 at 50 psi is 3000 lbs
Or ~5 psi difference for the same load. Not a lot, but something. Basic physics would lead to the same conclusion. The stock size tire (255/70r18) only carries 2405 lbs at 50 psi. My tires carry more than that with only 35 psi! Which do you think will have a better ride and control in rough conditions? I'm real happy with the performance of my big fat tires at any rate...
Are you sure your ujoints didn't wear out because of excessive lift? I can't see any reason why bigger tires alone would wear them out.
My '84 never had any swaybars. Ya, good shocks, better springs, and better tires would have been nice! 4wd would have been nice too, but I already had that truck and figured it would be a 1 year sabbatical rather than 13!
Yes, swaybars and shocks control motion. I think for this sort of application, the proper shocks do a much better job of it than swaybars. If you drove a vehicle with shocks tuned for high digressive damping, I think you'd see what I mean.
Factory trucks aren't designed for this type of use... none of them. That's why some mods are very helpful. I don't know why you bring up rock crawlers but I think that is a good example of a vehicle that is definitely better with mods vs factory stock.
I think BB is referring to the u-joints in his axle's steering knuckles seeing higher loads with bigger tires. The rest of the drive train from the differentials moving toward the crank shaft is relatively the same loading if the gearing is changed in the ring and pinion to approximate stock ratios. The torque on the drive train is the same excluding axle shafts and steering knuckle u-joints.
rruff
Explorer
They all validate it... you can chose any pair you like, it will be the same result. Those just happened to be the tire I have, and the "skinny" tire that is the same diameter and rim size.
37x11.50R18 3305 lbs
37x12.50R18 3415 lbs
37x13.50R18 3525 lbs
37x11.50R20 3000 lbs
37x12.50R20 3085 lbs
37x13.50R20 3195 lbs
37x14.50R20 3305 lbs
etc
Oh ya, solid axle! I think I see, I never looked at one before. So the bigger tires result in greater force through the joint for the same force on the ground, yes? If that causes frequent failures, seems like Jeep is cutting margins pretty close, considering how often people put big tires on those.
You're not wrong, rruff. Dalton Hwy is just one road I want to travel. The Alaska Hwy through Canada (BC, Saskatchewan, Yukon) to Alaska is another road. And in between my great Alaskan adventures, I want to travel these kinds of roads:
James Langan, road to Crystal Mill, CO
Two guys on dirt bikes, Scofield Pass, Crested Butte to Marble, CO
What camper has the following construction/amenities, and what truck will carry that camper safely and correctly?
What mods, if any (nod to billiebob), should the truck have?
Lastly, what cautions should one take while driving such roads (besides going slow/not slamming over rocks, listening for bad noises, picking a good line)?
Inside shower (wet or dry bath). Insulated floor, walls, ceiling. Good heating system. Plumbing/tanks that won't freeze under 32 degrees. Light weight (ha!). Not too big or tall.
I like the OBS Fords. Would a 1997 F350 IDI or gas be suitable for the above? How about a 2004 Dodge 2500 Cummins?
Last edited:
tacollie
Glamper
Scofield is super narrow but not overly technical. I've done it in a stock Discovery and a 4runner on 33s. I would recommend a spotter. The road to Crystal Mills is pretty tame. Either of those trucks can do it with good tires but I wouldn't want to do Scofield with a hard sided camper. I would be partial to the F350 with a gas motor. The 7.3 is loud and heavy which are 2 things I hate. Unfortunately the gas motors will be thirsty.
This Lance might work. They pull their camper and do some hard 4wd trails. Best of both worlds.
2020 Northstar Liberty - Expedition Truck Camper Build!
Here's the video of us taking delivery: Over the years there have been many off road travel type vehicles. In the early days it was a 1992 Mitsubishi Montero with a cheap tent. There were a number of 4WD trucks after that 1983 Toyota Hilux (rock crawler), Isuzu Trooper, Isuzu Rodeo... I...
expeditionportal.com
Thanks tacollie.
What about Scofield makes you say you wouldn't want to drive it with a hard side camper?
(Edit): I think I see why. The trail is so narrow in some places that the camper would hit the rocks on the sloping hill to the left, and so narrow in other places that the truck's right side tires might be dangerously close to the edge.
---------------------------------------
stevo_pct;
What about Scofield makes you say you wouldn't want to drive it in an empty pickup.
(Edit): Same as above.
--------------------------------------
I've never driven on any road like Scofield or the other one (road to Crystal Mill). It's a goal, though, in 3 years, to be able to, at will.
--------------------------------------
(Edit): Ok. Maybe a mountain bike would be better. Dirt biker falls into Devil's Punchbowl on Schofield. Survived without injuries. Protruding rock kicked his front tire left, causing right wrist to twist the throttle, vaulting machine over the edge.
If you play at 25% speed you'll see the rider's arms flailing against the cliff as he falls, trying to grab something to stop his fall. Instead, he landed ********** dab in the middle of the pool; which is what saved him.
Remove the three asterisks to get to video URL (Utube).
https:***//youtu.be/zlb8ic6ivcg?t=325
What about Scofield makes you say you wouldn't want to drive it with a hard side camper?
(Edit): I think I see why. The trail is so narrow in some places that the camper would hit the rocks on the sloping hill to the left, and so narrow in other places that the truck's right side tires might be dangerously close to the edge.
---------------------------------------
stevo_pct;
What about Scofield makes you say you wouldn't want to drive it in an empty pickup.
(Edit): Same as above.
--------------------------------------
I've never driven on any road like Scofield or the other one (road to Crystal Mill). It's a goal, though, in 3 years, to be able to, at will.
--------------------------------------
(Edit): Ok. Maybe a mountain bike would be better. Dirt biker falls into Devil's Punchbowl on Schofield. Survived without injuries. Protruding rock kicked his front tire left, causing right wrist to twist the throttle, vaulting machine over the edge.
If you play at 25% speed you'll see the rider's arms flailing against the cliff as he falls, trying to grab something to stop his fall. Instead, he landed ********** dab in the middle of the pool; which is what saved him.
Remove the three asterisks to get to video URL (Utube).
https:***//youtu.be/zlb8ic6ivcg?t=325
Last edited:
rruff
Explorer
Also when on forest trails and trees are in the way, excessive width and fragile things on the roof are an issue. Common commercial campers are not designed for this. Compromises. The Northstar that Peter got is narrow, and there are a few others. He cuts branches that are in the way too.
Most overlandy campers are popups. A lot of people like them, but you usually won't have much storage space inside. You may find that the bath (dry or wet) is a wasteful extravagance. A porta pottie of some kinda that tucks away and a place where you can set up a temporary showering spot make more sense. I pooped in a hole and showered outside (sunshower) 99% of the time. If the weather was bad and I needed to clean up, it was a sponge bath. If you are traveling or visiting town and want a *real* shower there plenty of places where you can go, and public restrooms are everywhere. Heating can be as simple as a little propane lantern, a Buddy or Camco heater... or a nice furnace.
I thought about getting an old truck, because I love simplicity. But the problem is that they are old!... and things will be failing. Not ideal for long term use away from home, unless you'd like that to be part of your adventure? Finding someone to fix them should be easier. Definitely if I was going to get a diesel it would be 2006 or older... but gas engines are fine. BTW I think 1993 was the last year for the IDI 7.3? I was just looking at those.
There are a lot of compromises when you go luxury; weight, expense, more stuff to fail, etc. Hauling all that size and weight restricts where you can go, too. I think I'd advise trying a simple pop-up camper on a good pickup and see if that works for you. You'll get a sense of what is important, and these will be easy to sell if you want something else.
Did you ever state a budget?
Fishenough
Creeper
Came back to this thread, after reading on Facebook of a 20 year old Dodge Caravan broke something metal in the front end that was replaced the same day recently - I know that van from when I lived downtown Whitehorse, it was at the Gold Rush like clockwork. That car drove the Dempster, return, every week almost everyday of the year for all its 20 years. Yes the van looked like crap 7 years ago when I last saw it, heck maybe it was 20 years old then.
Stock suspension for the win!
I walked the Walmart Campground regularly to see what people drove north with. Edit, during my Yukon and Alaska travels I came across countless trailers with wheel problems.
Stock suspension for the win!
I walked the Walmart Campground regularly to see what people drove north with. Edit, during my Yukon and Alaska travels I came across countless trailers with wheel problems.
rruff;
About $30k if I were to buy now. About $50k in 3 years. I was originally thinking if I found something I really liked right now and it was more than $30k I might buy it now to have it for later. Two things have put that on hold.
First, serious health issues in the family compel me to be a learner about truck campers instead of buyer and user at this time. Second, I don't know enough about anything to make a wise decision. I liked this rig and made inquiries of the owner. He responded quickly, thoroughly, and in detail. But the family issue arose during my email conversations and put the kabosh on going further.
expeditionportal.com
At my age, and I'll be older when I start my epic, comforts are important; especially for full time living (as long as that'll be). Shower, hot water, heat, etc. I believe some popups have indoor showers. Waist high stalls with shower curtain as the upper walls. That's a plus.
The cons, to me, are as you said. Popups don't have much on board storage; unless they're a flatbed rig or the owner designed/improvised additional storage. Or an ambulance, but I don't know how those would do on rougher roads/trails.
The tent-like walls of a popup don't appeal to me. For the cost of a good reputation popup, I don't want to hear the canvas flapping, don't want to lose heat through the walls. Also, much as I try, I just find the interior "vibe" or "feel" to be cold and not homey or inviting. At my age those things are more important than when I was 20-50 and backpack camped.
But you've prodded me to look into popups more. And to focus on hard sides that are narrower and shorter, for better 'wilderness' driveability.
I like some of the Northern Lites. That wet bath is appealing. But they seem pretty big for the kinds of places I want to go. Haven't really studied the specs on all their models, though.
Any idea if the "winterized" Lance models do what they're advertised to do? Keep water tank/pipes from freezing with ducted heat? I don't like the big hangover in back, though, that Lance has.
About $30k if I were to buy now. About $50k in 3 years. I was originally thinking if I found something I really liked right now and it was more than $30k I might buy it now to have it for later. Two things have put that on hold.
First, serious health issues in the family compel me to be a learner about truck campers instead of buyer and user at this time. Second, I don't know enough about anything to make a wise decision. I liked this rig and made inquiries of the owner. He responded quickly, thoroughly, and in detail. But the family issue arose during my email conversations and put the kabosh on going further.
[Price Drop] 1997 Ford F-250HD 4x4 Powerstroke w/ Fully built custom Aluminum camper ($80,000)
Vehicle: 1997 Ford F-250HD 4x4 5spd manual extra cab long bed 7.3 power stroke diesel with 4.10 gears (135k miles) Suspension upgrades: Solid axle swap from 2009 Super duty Swap to coil sprung front suspension 4 inch lift from Sky offroad design 2008-2016 suspension swap Air lift load lifter...
expeditionportal.com
At my age, and I'll be older when I start my epic, comforts are important; especially for full time living (as long as that'll be). Shower, hot water, heat, etc. I believe some popups have indoor showers. Waist high stalls with shower curtain as the upper walls. That's a plus.
The cons, to me, are as you said. Popups don't have much on board storage; unless they're a flatbed rig or the owner designed/improvised additional storage. Or an ambulance, but I don't know how those would do on rougher roads/trails.
The tent-like walls of a popup don't appeal to me. For the cost of a good reputation popup, I don't want to hear the canvas flapping, don't want to lose heat through the walls. Also, much as I try, I just find the interior "vibe" or "feel" to be cold and not homey or inviting. At my age those things are more important than when I was 20-50 and backpack camped.
But you've prodded me to look into popups more. And to focus on hard sides that are narrower and shorter, for better 'wilderness' driveability.
I like some of the Northern Lites. That wet bath is appealing. But they seem pretty big for the kinds of places I want to go. Haven't really studied the specs on all their models, though.
Any idea if the "winterized" Lance models do what they're advertised to do? Keep water tank/pipes from freezing with ducted heat? I don't like the big hangover in back, though, that Lance has.
rruff
Explorer
You did go over some of this in your OP... I just forgot! On this forum, that would be considered low budget for a full rig with all the amenities, and hard to come by in this still over-inflated market.
You said you lived in New England... have you camped much in the west? If you haven't, it's probably hard to imagine how pleasant it is. It's so easy to find beautiful spots with great weather all year. No biting bugs (usually), very little rain... sunny, dry, and clear, temperatures never below freezing at night in winter and usually in the 40s (and much warmer than that if you go to Baja), and below 80 during the day in summer. No snow or mud to deal with. No briars or poison plants and little undergrowth in the forests, so it isn't hard to walk. That's pure luxury IMO; I couldn't care less about "creature comforts"... and I'm not young either.
You didn't say exactly how old you are, but you couldn't be too decrepit, else you wouldn't be planning this... 4 years in the future. I have a buddy who is pretty decrepit; he can't walk very well, and has heart issues and cancer. He has a trailer at home, but when he camps for months at a time he lives in a '96 Toyota Rav4. Has it set up to store what he needs and he even sleeps inside it... and he's happy.
Since you have time, do you have the skill and wherewithal to build out a rig yourself? Maybe even build the shell?
This came up on another forum recently, and seemed like a good deal. It's in SW Michigan so not close... but I think it might appeal to you. It's only $10k, and has your 7.3 IDI with low miles, and even single rear wheels. If you can install the stuff you want, it might appeal to you. Good deals need to be pounced on quickly!
vanlivingforum.com
You said you lived in New England... have you camped much in the west? If you haven't, it's probably hard to imagine how pleasant it is. It's so easy to find beautiful spots with great weather all year. No biting bugs (usually), very little rain... sunny, dry, and clear, temperatures never below freezing at night in winter and usually in the 40s (and much warmer than that if you go to Baja), and below 80 during the day in summer. No snow or mud to deal with. No briars or poison plants and little undergrowth in the forests, so it isn't hard to walk. That's pure luxury IMO; I couldn't care less about "creature comforts"... and I'm not young either.
You didn't say exactly how old you are, but you couldn't be too decrepit, else you wouldn't be planning this... 4 years in the future. I have a buddy who is pretty decrepit; he can't walk very well, and has heart issues and cancer. He has a trailer at home, but when he camps for months at a time he lives in a '96 Toyota Rav4. Has it set up to store what he needs and he even sleeps inside it... and he's happy.
Since you have time, do you have the skill and wherewithal to build out a rig yourself? Maybe even build the shell?
This came up on another forum recently, and seemed like a good deal. It's in SW Michigan so not close... but I think it might appeal to you. It's only $10k, and has your 7.3 IDI with low miles, and even single rear wheels. If you can install the stuff you want, it might appeal to you. Good deals need to be pounced on quickly!
Vehicle For Sale - AMBO FOR SALE
Ambo for sale. 1993 Ford E350, 7.3 diesel, in great shape with a Horton ambo box, 88,000 act miles, looks almost new with a bath. New tires, batteries, 250 amp altenator & serp belt right before I bought it 2 years ago. It was the 2nd or spare from a small fire dept north of Detroit. I drove 300...
vanlivingforum.com
rruff;
Agree. The low end of my price range is limiting as far as camper amenities and truck type/condition. Being new at this, I'm not sure of what things really cost. I'm learning, though. The more I learn, the more adjusted I get to paying more than I first imagined.
Spent 2 weeks in Aspen in 2002. Job related. Blown away by the place and surrounding areas (Leadville, etc). Still remember the sign announcing I'd entered "Rifle", Colorado. And those ginormous run-off ramps on I70 for runaway tractor trailers.
On the hike past the lake at Maroon Bells I took pics of bear tracks in the sand, under a few inches of water, just off shore.
But never camped in the west. Every picture I see of rigs shows beautiful areas they can drive to. Might be rough driving sometimes, but even the flat dirt roads lead to outstanding vistas.
I'm very confident in my machine shop, fabrication, wood working, and welding skills (aluminum included) but at 68 yo I don't have the fire in my belly to follow through on a build. Not yet, anyway. Ya need that drive and I just don't have it. I'm at the age where I still change my own oil and do my own repairs far as possible, but where I'd rather now buy something already built and just drive off, making compromises where necessary.
Agree. The low end of my price range is limiting as far as camper amenities and truck type/condition. Being new at this, I'm not sure of what things really cost. I'm learning, though. The more I learn, the more adjusted I get to paying more than I first imagined.
Spent 2 weeks in Aspen in 2002. Job related. Blown away by the place and surrounding areas (Leadville, etc). Still remember the sign announcing I'd entered "Rifle", Colorado. And those ginormous run-off ramps on I70 for runaway tractor trailers.
On the hike past the lake at Maroon Bells I took pics of bear tracks in the sand, under a few inches of water, just off shore.
But never camped in the west. Every picture I see of rigs shows beautiful areas they can drive to. Might be rough driving sometimes, but even the flat dirt roads lead to outstanding vistas.
I'm very confident in my machine shop, fabrication, wood working, and welding skills (aluminum included) but at 68 yo I don't have the fire in my belly to follow through on a build. Not yet, anyway. Ya need that drive and I just don't have it. I'm at the age where I still change my own oil and do my own repairs far as possible, but where I'd rather now buy something already built and just drive off, making compromises where necessary.
First I'll make the caveat that I'm not a skilled "off roader". However I live in CO and have done a ton of navigating rough forest service roads around CO, WY, and MT.
For me, roads like Scofield Pass (which often have disclaimers like "expert 4x4 only" on maps) are narrow with obstacles and big dropoffs immediatley to the side of the road. It may be fine if you know you're the only one on the road, but the problem (for me) is encountering oncoming vehicles. The bigger your vehicle is (or the other person's) the less likely you'll be able to pass each other. So one of you needs to back up until you get to a wide enough part of the road to safely pass. That can be a hair raising experience on a road like that.
With a camper on a truck, not only are you wider but you have less visibility. I wouldn't want to have to back up any appreciable distance in a truck with a camper in the Devil's Punchbowl area. Although if you have the larger vehicle, maybe the other person will volunteer to be the one to backup. But now you're the jerk trying to drive a road with a camper that you probably shouldn't be on.
To the more experienced 4x4 folks out there. Anything to add? Are there protocals around encountering oncoming traffic and needing to back up when you're on a narrow road with a dropoff like Scofields? Or other skills to make it easier? In case you're not familiar with Scofield's Pass, it's not your average rough FS road, it's pretty narrow and hairy.
I'd rather set up camp a couple thousand feet below the pass and explore in a different vehicle (bike, motorcycle, or truck with the camper left at camp).
Maybe I got off on a tangent. To the OP, Schofield Pass is not the norm for Forest Service Roads. I get your point, in addition to the Dalton Hwy, you're also looking to explore and get out there on rougher dirt roads and want something that can handle rough-ish dirt roads without a problem.