CONFIRMED! Reliable sources state 2014 will be the last FJC Model year

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<---Pass
The Venza isn't even an SUV. For that matter, niether is the RAV4 or the Highlander. Technically they're car-based "crossovers" but in terms of where they fit into the market, they appeal to the same market segment that 40 years ago would have bought station wagons and 25 years ago would have bought mini-vans.

So to the question "Does Toyota make too many SUVs?" the answer is "no", because the only real SUVs Toyota offers are the Land Cruiser, the FJC and the 4runner. Actually, you could probably put the DC Taco into that mix as well, I'd bet that most DC tacos are used as family haulers or daily drivers rather than trucks.

For whatever reason (fashion, fad, changing views on cars) the terms "wagon" or "station wagon" are considered poisonous in terms of auto marketing (I guess too many people think of Clark Griswold's "Family Truckster" in avocado green with fake wood paneling.)

Even though the term "wagon" became anathema to the auto market, people still need a multi-purpose vehicle that can perform the functions of a wagon, hence the mini-van was born in the 80's.

But then, the mini-van got its stodgy mom's taxi rap in the 90's and so the "crossover" was born, basically a minivan/station wagon with deniability. "I'm not driving to soccer practice, I'm going on safari! See, I even have a spare tire on the back door!" :rolleyes:


Yep, pretty much agree with that.

Still think they should dump the FJ, and build a modern FJ40 to combat the Wrangler. I sure do like the Wrangler but have great fear of Chrysler made products.
If Toyota made their version...well then. ;)
 

SouthPawXJ

Observer
The Venza isn't even an SUV. For that matter, niether is the RAV4 or the Highlander. Technically they're car-based "crossovers" but in terms of where they fit into the market, they appeal to the same market segment that 40 years ago would have bought station wagons and 25 years ago would have bought mini-vans.

So to the question "Does Toyota make too many SUVs?" the answer is "no", because the only real SUVs Toyota offers are the Land Cruiser, the FJC and the 4runner. Actually, you could probably put the DC Taco into that mix as well, I'd bet that most DC tacos are used as family haulers or daily drivers rather than trucks.

For whatever reason (fashion, fad, changing views on cars) the terms "wagon" or "station wagon" are considered poisonous in terms of auto marketing (I guess too many people think of Clark Griswold's "Family Truckster" in avocado green with fake wood paneling.)

Even though the term "wagon" became anathema to the auto market, people still need a multi-purpose vehicle that can perform the functions of a wagon, hence the mini-van was born in the 80's.

But then, the mini-van got its stodgy mom's taxi rap in the 90's and so the "crossover" was born, basically a minivan/station wagon with deniability. "I'm not driving to soccer practice, I'm going on safari! See, I even have a spare tire on the back door!" :rolleyes:

Yep, pretty much agree with that.

Still think they should dump the FJ, and build a modern FJ40 to combat the Wrangler. I sure do like the Wrangler but have great fear of Chrysler made products.
If Toyota made their version...well then. ;)

Don't forget about the Sequoia... they don't sell many of those, either.

Really, a capable SUV is a sort of niche product anymore (with the exception of a few vehicles). We have to define capable of course, and what constitutes an SUV. I chose BOF SUVs for the comparision below. If I missed one, let me know.

Note: To me, any vehicle with "sufficient" off road capability can be an SUV, whether or not they BOF. However, some define an SUV using BOF.

US Yearly Sales for BOF SUVs in 2012 (from wikipedia)
Jeep Wrangler (2 & 4 door) - 141 669
Chevrolet Suburban (& Yukon XL) - 71 543
Chevrolet Tahoe ( & Yukon) - 96 722
Ford Expedition - 38 062
Toyota 4Runner - 48 755
Toyota Sequoia - 13 151
Toyota FJ - 13 656
Toyota LC ( & LX) - 7900
Mercedes GWagen - ???
----------------
Total - 431 458

And... for comparison... a few selected CUVs...
2012 Honda CR-V Sales - 281 652
2012 Ford Escape - 261 008
2012 Toyota Highlander - 121 055
2012 Ford Explorer - 158 344

Companies can make a profit with a low-volume, high-margin product (as haven mentioned). So, it would stand to reason that off-road vehicles would need to operate in this regime (I'm not certain Toyota could match the Wrangler's sales ability). It shouldn't suprise anyone that the rugged SUVs we love would start to move upmarket, honestly.
 
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onemanarmy

Explorer
Never understood why Toyota didn't/doesn't offer a removable top product to compete with the JK. They have the legendary Land Cruiser name, and the original LC had removable tops (if any top at all) just like Jeep. And Jeep is still running with the ball. A 2 door removable top FJ would sell. The FJC was/is a terrible effort.
 

SouthPawXJ

Observer
Yep.

View attachment 161116



Maybe not, might sell more than FJC's though.

That's a sweet Subi.

I don't doubt a more traditional looking vehicle would sell better. I'd like them to make an FJ40 just so Wrangler could have some serious competition at the bottom end! I don't want Jeep's engineers to get complacent... I like Mopars, but Toyotas are pretty excellent as well.

:D
 

Ramjet

Explorer
There's your answer right there. Suburbans and Tahoes. Most of the time I see them, they have one driver and they are usually in their cell phone driving like a bat out of hell. Then again I live in TX. Here's the real story. The EPA has full grasp of what auto manufacturers can build. The reason why Chrysler, Chevy, and Ford can get away with building the monstrosities that they do is because that's what the American public and the Senators want. They want big, luxurious SUV's to cart them around. Face it. This is a losing battle for the rest of us in the market for capable off road vehicles. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty on the market now. But I really see this changing over the next 10-20 years. Just my 2 cents.
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
Don't forget about the Sequoia... they don't sell many of those, either.

Really, a capable SUV is a sort of niche product anymore (with the exception of a few vehicles). We have to define capable of course, and what constitutes an SUV. I chose BOF SUVs for the comparision below. If I missed one, let me know.

My only quibble with the above is the word "anymore." In reality, off-road capable vehicles have always been a niche market, for good reason: Most people simply don't need them.

Here's a personal recollection of mine: I grew up in a quiet cul-de-sac suburban neighborhood Southwest of Denver (Columbine Hills for those familiar with the area.) We bought our house new and moved in early in 1973 when I was 11 years old. Our neighborhood was, I thought, a fairly typical representation of a middle-class suburban neighborhood in the 70's. And keep in mind this is in Colorado, where we do get some decent snow and winter weather.

So in that block of about 20 houses, how many had a 4wd vehicle in the 70's? The answer is ONE. Our neighbor across the street had a Wagoneer. That's it. The next 4x4 to be purchased on that block was the 1957 International Travelall that I bought in late 1979 as my first vehicle. There were no CJ's, Broncos, Suburbans, Blazers, Ramchargers, Commandos or Rovers anywhere on my block. The standard vehicles were American-made sedans and wagons (we had a Chevy wagon, then a VW bus, then a Ford Torino wagon, then another Chevy wagon.)

Oh, they were around, but they weren't common.

One other thing: Number of pickup trucks on our block? ZERO. Back then trucks were typically purchased by people who needed them for work.

For a brief window in the 1980s-90's, when the SUV craze hit, manufacturers 'assumed' that if people wanted SUVs, they wanted rugged, off-road capable vehicles. It took them a few years but they finally realized that there were millions of Cherokees, 4runners, Broncos and Explorers that went their entire lives without ever once being put into low range (in some cases without ever once being put into 4wd.) And yet these vehicles carried that capability around with them despite the fact that it was never actually needed.

It was then that the manufacturers realized most people didn't want a rugged, capable off-road vehicle, they wanted a station wagon that looked like a rugged, capable off-road vehicle and so in the mid-90's the CUV was born (some of them - Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV-4 came complete with SUV-like styling cues like the door-mounted spare tire!)


It shouldn't suprise anyone that the rugged SUVs we love would start to move upmarket, honestly.

Another reason for moving up-market is the fact that vehicles have been getting better and lasting longer. This means that new vehicles are competing in the same market as late-model used vehicles that cost less.

Think of it this way: Assuming that Toyota could make, say, a "poverty package" 4runner with rubber floor mats, no AC, an AM radio, vinyl seats and hand crank windows. Let's say they could sell this for $26,000 where a new one runs in the $36k range (not sure if those numbers are realistic, but use them for arguments sake.)

The problem for Toyota is that this hypothetical $26k stripper would be competing against a 4 year old loaded-up Limited that has 60k on the clock and probably sells for the same price. Kind of a no-brainer here, almost anybody would buy the 4 year old one simply because it has more to offer for the same cost and the one thing that the stripper offers - the fact that it is new - is of diminished value in an era when a 10 year old vehicle with 100k on it is just about as reliable and long-lasting as a brand new one.

So, to keep people buying new, they have to offer more and more, which costs more and more, thus the upward movement of these vehicles.
 
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SWITAWI

Doesn't Get Out Enough
Well there you go...

Maybe now the rest of the Toyota 4x4 community can stop going on about how 'poor' the FJC is...

No wait, now they'll just go on and on about how poor it was. :elkgrin:

In the meantime I'll still be enjoying mine (despite its quirks) for what it is and what it isn't.
 

haven

Expedition Leader
So, will FJ Cruisers now be available at fire sale prices? or will they command a premium as collector items?

I updated the thread title to read "CONFIRMED: Reliable sources..."
 

brushogger

Explorer
"2014 as the last year"

One reason could be that the FJ Cruiser is based on the 4Runner, and the 4Runner design is due for an overhaul in 2015 or 2016. The current 4Runner was redesigned way back in 2009.

Another reason might be that during the first 4 months of 2013, Toyota sold only 3,616 FJ Cruisers in USA. That's about 0.6% of Toyota's sales of 609,000 units of all types so far in 2013. Only the Land Cruiser sells in smaller numbers. Put another way, each of Toyota's dealers sell one FJ Cruiser every two months. Hardly worth the effort.

They haven't been allowed to sell them for a while this year due to the seatbelt recall issue.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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