Do you feel the need to have a weapon when camping

[john101477]

Ignorant- can not really remove any crime except for arson on that list. theft is theft. there is no difference in theft and petty theft except the cost. Those numbers also come from 2006 when people were not quite as desperate as they are now. Just in my area this year we have had 7 bank robbery's compared to 1 in 2006. When people get desperate crime goes up. So lets go back to 2006 - 11 murders in National parks alone, 4406 crimes total, thats 4406 crimes that did not happen to me but could have. Sure glad I can carry in national parks legally again.
and your right that does not include crimes in state parks and BLM where many crimes never get reported because the state parks are not staffed like national parks and BLM is not manned at all

 

[ignorant]

Ignorant- can not really remove any crime except for arson on that list. theft is theft. there is no difference in theft and petty theft except the cost. Those numbers also come from 2006 when people were not quite as desperate as they are now. Just in my area this year we have had 7 bank robbery's compared to 1 in 2006. When people get desperate crime goes up. So lets go back to 2006 - 11 murders in National parks alone, 4406 crimes total, thats 4406 crimes that did not happen to me but could have. Sure glad I can carry in national parks legally again.
and your right that does not include crimes in state parks and BLM where many crimes never get reported because the state parks are not staffed like national parks and BLM is not manned at all

Like I said, It's not perfect. The 2006 data was all I could find. But geez the crime rate inside a park is silly low. 1.65 per 100,000. to keep the statistics comparable the violent crime rate in the rest of the nation was 473.5 per 100,000. That is a prety wide distance....
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/data/table_01.html

 

[john101477]

It is low but it is also sad that people can not live without other people making problems for them. that is all the more reason to carry and all the more reason for honest people to obtain a CCW or equivalent for every day carry.
Be kind of neat to see the break down of parks with the highest crime rates. also Most national parks have a good percentage of law enforcement with one road in and one road out, so it does not surprise me of the low numbers.

 

[john101477]

I did find a graph for 2002 cal state parks. looks to be in the 8-9 per 100,000 range graph would not load full size for me. this is also total crimes i believe so if your camp fire was to big or you were speeding....

 

[ignorant]

\that is all the more reason to carry and all the more reason for honest people to obtain a CCW or equivalent for every day carry.

I was going to say that carry on the streets, by the data, is much more prudent than carry in a park.

The thing that got me thinking about carry in the woods was an encounter with a guy walking a very large and angry pit bull, while hiking with my baby and wife. That dog was scary. Yes, I'm not too proud to say that It's partial motivate by fear.

edit: btw.. that was a big pit bull, the guy was muscular and having hard time holding it back. The leash was made of 3/16" or larger chain. Maybe, it comes from being mauled slightly by a boxer when I was a kid, but I hate big angry dogs. I don't want them near me or my family.

 

[john101477]

Having been on the wrong end of dog bites I can sympathize. i have problems with certain breeds (german shepherds and rotts) but Most peoples dogs do not worry me to much, although having a young daughter that can change. I usually have my toy aussie with me while camping unless I am trying to photograph wildlife. He has a tendency to run all the wildlife off lol.
I carry for 2 reasons - personal safety and family safety. be it animals or people. I am not stupid enough to try to shoot a bear with a .45 at 40yds but a well placed shot can send them running the other way. I have come nose to nose with bear while hunting deer and I think it scared him as much as me. My father was walking a ledge and had one literally breath down his neck from a ledge, he had no choice but to shoot it as the bear instantly became aggressive. Mind you it was with a weapon much larger than a .45cal.
What I am trying to get at is that you never really know what is going to happen when your out in BFE with no place to receive help until it could be to late. In my family we even have a way to draw attention if your in a bad spot. such as if you fall and break your leg or get snake bit. We have a sequence of shots that lets anyone in the area know that we need help. kinda like morse code. Trevor mentioned that he does not feel the need to carry where he goes because he is so far out and does not see to many people. thats cool happy that the threat is minimal from people but even in BC where the threat of people is minimal a firearm could be helpful in many ways if the worst should happen. unexpected things happen and a firearm could just save your life.

Firearm uses:
Detour animal attacks. Bear /cougar will not always stop with spray. a loud boom will always have a greater impact than spray
attract S&R incase or an emergency. some situations may not allow you to start a fire where again a loud boom will.
Food. what happens if you get hurt the 1st day out and it takes S&R 2 weeks to find you.
people- while I would love to put faith in our fellow man, the reality is that not every one you will encounter is going to have as good of a disposition as you. economics does play a part here and lets face it the economy sucks. crime is on the rise in a big way.

either way I feel for me and my family it is better to be safe than sorry.

 

[ignorant]

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

that is interesting..

Law
enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality --
based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and
defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured
experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero
reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person's chance of incurring serious injury from
a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.

That is some interesting stuff. especially the last bit. double the chance of injury if you fire at a bear vs spray.

 

[Root Moose]

That is interesting.

I wonder why?

Bad/panicked shooting? Once their clip is emptied all around the bear 50% of the time the bear is well enough to continue it's attack?

Conversely, the bear spray is "alien" enough to really freak the bear out so it retreats?

 

[washington taco]

Recently near Granite Falls WA a few crack trailers (R.V.s) burned to the ground. Last fall while looking for a new camping spot near Marblemount WA we stubled upon a a trailer deep in the woods well hidden and apparently being lived in. Yes I was packing the last thing I need is a crack head shooting me because I stumbled across them. Come across some ones grow/crack trailer and you could be shot at least you could have chance having a firearm on your side.

 

[ignorant]

That is interesting.

I wonder why?

Bad/panicked shooting? Once their clip is emptied all around the bear 50% of the time the bear is well enough to continue it's attack?

Conversely, the bear spray is "alien" enough to really freak the bear out so it retreats?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080325171221.htm

The statistics from the guy above says, firearms are 67% effective at stopping a bear attack and the spray is 92%.

Interesting stuff. Sometimes, I really hate being a data driven person.

 

[john101477]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080325171221.htm

The statistics from the guy above says, firearms are 67% effective at stopping a bear attack and the spray is 92%.

Interesting stuff. Sometimes, I really hate being a data driven person.

Thats unique reading. to bad it is 100% BS
first off that 92% is not tested on animals attacking but rather animals rummaging through people garbage. little different scenario. also note that BOTH links that you posted are based on the same Dr. Herrero's "studies".
2. Being that the grizzle is on the endangered species list and it is illegal to shoot one, of course the government is going to prefer you to use pepper spray. they said similar things to people in california about Mountain Lions. plain ridiculous.
3- I bear hunt and it has NEVER taken me more than one shot to take down a bear.
4- I have witnessed a bear eat a can of WD40, a can of pam cooking spray and a spray can of paint. and still have room for cookies (oreos to be exact)
5- 12 ft from a bear is TO close. If you were to spray a bear with full momentum at 12ft the forward motion of the bear would still hit you.

I am not saying that just anyone should start firing into a bear with a .22 or even a .45, your just gonna piss it off. what i am saying is your more likely to run the bear off if you shoot near the bear like a warning shot. 9 times out of 10 the bear will run like hell from the noise.
My aunt and uncle live in alaska and have to deal with grizzle's as a common thing. They do not carry pepper spray and the professional guilds do not carry pepper spray.

 

[ignorant]

He found that the spray effectively halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases, whether that behavior was an attack or merely rummaging for food.

From the BYU study article.

 

[ldivinag]

i bought one of these since S&W were stopping their production:

it's S&W 500 magnum in a 2.75" barrel. i fired 4 rounds (which cost about $15) and boy... were my hand and wrist hurting.

but then again, i know there's only one reason to pull this out while in the middle of nowhere... zombies.

 

[Corey]

Leo, I remember when that gun came out, very nice.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

i bought one of these since S&W were stopping their production:

it's S&W 500 magnum in a 2.75" barrel. i fired 4 rounds (which cost about $15) and boy... were my hand and wrist hurting.

but then again, i know there's only one reason to pull this out while in the middle of nowhere... zombies.

It's also a perfect example of the state of fear you guys are living in. Nice how they include a... what is that... a book or a DVD about bear attacks?

I fired a S&W 500. It's a ************* stupid gun. You've got one shot, so you better make it count. In the time it takes you to reposition, somebody with a semi-auto 9mm will have emptied their clip, or the bear will have closed range.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/...ar spray.pdf

Ignorant, not sure if you saw the link I posted earlier with similar info. A study done up in Alaska showed bear spray was what... 96 or 97% effective in stopping an attack, and IIRC, the other 3-4% were not killed.

Yet these same guys go on and on about "it's a tool" and "being prepared" and "Rather have it than need it", etc. But you want to bet they don't carry a can of bear spray IN ADDITION to a gun?

This isn't about numbers or reality. This is religion. Religion allows them to deny the numbers, and create their own reality.

These guys are 10 times more likely to get hit by lightning than they are to get attacked by anything. Yet you think they carry a SPOT device, HAM radio, or any form of long-range communication? I bet most of them don't. But it's all about "being prepared", "having and not needing", isn't it?

Oh, but they can fire a gun off into the air to create a non-directional, non-specific signal to... somebody who might hear it, maybe, if they're lucky.