Hey Vortec Guys! / Sierra pickup / Suburban / Yukon etc - Finally has Index!

rayra

Expedition Leader
Thought about it but the other side came apart well enough and looking at the tool (while getting a loaner torsion bar unloader) and geometry of the suspension I couldn't see how I could make it work, without getting under the loaded lower control arm. After getting my hand caught / pinned to the ground under a '73 Firebird suspension when a coil spring compressor failed, I'm really gun shy about putting my hands in and around a loaded suspension. And hammering the fork on the driver side worked quite well. And did on the passenger side after I shimmed the fork some. Details and pics below.


well I got things finished today, with a few more improvisations.

First I went after remounting the torsion key crossmember an the torsion bars, as I needed the force of the latter to help separate the passenger side upper balljoint.

I couldn't come close to mouting two rubber washers to each face of the donut mounts. Best way to describe the old mount is 'prolapsed'. Permanently shifted rearward. Only under a very sketchy C-clamp applictaion could I drive the bolt sleeve close ot its proper balanced position. And I couldn't leave the clamp in place while driving the crossmember into place. Not enough room to work and it would have taken 5 hands to get it done. So I wound up with only one washer on each face of each mount. But that itself fell right where I wanted it, between the metal of the mount and the crossmember. Close enough for now. It should hold up long enough while I seek out some control arm bushings that will work.

Then it was back to separating that balljoint. I was resigned to wailing on it again with a torch and BFH. So much so that I removed everything else in the area as late yesterday I was making some poor strikes and hitting things I shouldn't. So I dismounted everything. Then I stuck my splitte r/ pickle fork in there and beat away. Again to no avail.
But as I was wrenching the fork out again I noticed how poorly it was held. It in its beaten state - I've had and used it for decades - it really wasn't tall/.thick enough to do the job. I'd tried yesterday to stick both pickle forks I had in there, but stacked together their wedge was too angular to bite and they'd just bounce out. So I started thinking about shims, placed under the fork to increase the stack height. After digging around and discarding the idea of using some aluminum bar stock and other 'found' objects, I lit upon the idea of using a couple steel washers as shims. Success! It didn't take 5 strikes to pop things apart. All the dread and it took <10mins today.

After that it was putting in the new parts. I went ahead and installed the re-assembled new CV axle, despite concern about its boot clamp tightness. I took some measurements, 3/8"x11"L ladder camp should work, over the top of the existing band clamp. And it can be installed later a the vehicle sits.
So in it went, etc. An hour later I was test driving around the neighborhood and it feels good. But I still have a rear brake rubbery squeak - need to inject more silicone lube in to the Spohn trailign arms. And see about lubing other parts.

While I had the passenger front apart I moved things around and unloaded the lower ball joint is obviously worn out and floppy list. So next month it will be lower control arm replacements, too.

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Notes -
The torsion crossmember cant be lifted in from below. It needs to come in from above. Or leave on eend on the ground and come in high with the other and set the high end beyond the bolt hole location until after the low end is emplaced.
Never leave the upper control arm disconnected while wrestling the CV into place.
Taking the front sway bar links off makes it much easier the get the CV out and back into place.
My aftermarket keys are a bit larger than the factory pieces. There were indications of rubbing inside the top of the crossmember. So I shot some grease on those rub spots before re-assembly.
 

Overlandtowater

Well-known member
way to go on the rubber bushings! I assume that cannot be solidly mounted due to the torsion bars flexing down with the control arms at droop?
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
yep, that crossmember is 'live'. The front end's socket in the control arm is very close to the pivot point so there's a very small arc of motion. To the torsion key is nodding up and down in the crossmember, as well as the rearward thrust of the torsion bar allowed by the wear in the front bushings.

I'm definitely replacing the lower control arms / bushings / ball joint soon. Have to unship the torsion bars then anyway. So I'll work on the modified control arm bushing idea and have it ready by then.

One other measurement - the bolt sleeve in the frame mount is the same dimension as the gap in the crossmember, just a touch over 1.5".


eta

dimensions needed for modified bushings

torsion bushing sizings.jpg


I'll get something a little more exact when I have time to think about it more. Where things are exacting and where there's wiggle room. If I can't find some 'found' rubber or poly bushings that come close enough to modify easily, maybe I can find someone with a lathe that can mill some hockey pucks.
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
'Be honest'? Pretty offensive way to pre-load a question. Besides the way it presumes I can't or won't be.
Well your question isn't off-topic and it was discussed in the early pages of this topic.

They suit my slow-rolling on fire access roads and dry washes just fine. Probably not for folks that like to blast around like they're in the Baja 1000. I got that out of my system ~30yrs ago. I try NOT to catch air in this thing. I have yet to drive them hard enough off-road to generate any fade.
Nowadays I drive off-road to get at / look at the scenery. Not for the driving itself.
I also like that they're mild enough I don't get any jounce just going down the paved road. People say driving a Sub is like driving your living room down the road. I like it that way.
There are better (and much more costly) shocks available. I haven't needed them.
 
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Overlandtowater

Well-known member
'Be honest'? Pretty offensive way to pre-load a question. Besides the way it presumes I can't or won't be.
Well your question isn't off-topic and it was discussed in the early pages of this topic.

They suit my slow-rolling on fire access roads and dry washes just fine. Probably not for folks that like to blast around like they're in the Baja 1000. I got that out of my system ~30yrs ago. I try NOT to catch air in this thing. I have yet to drive them hard enough off-road to generate any fade.
Nowadays I drive off-road to get at / look at the scenery. Not for the driving itself.
I also like that they're mild enough I don't get any jounce just going down the paved road. People say driving a Sub is like driving your living room down the road. I like it that way.
There are better (and much more costly) shocks available. I haven't needed them.

That was not meant the way it sounded....Thanks, the last sentence is what I wanted to hear.....sounds like we do about the same type of driving.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
Look around pages 7-10, where I was putting in my aftermarket torsion key and rear spacer lift. The reasonings and discussion are in there. Most of the stuff I'm doing to this old Sub is more akin to refurbishment than 'performance' parts. It was pretty tired when I got it, typical mom-taxi. BurbOne touched on it in another topic, any major improvement part is just going to move the point of failure to the next weakest link. So I've been tweaking things and mostly replacing tired original parts and making small improvements where I can. Still really 'baselining' the condition of the vehicle, before I decide what bigger improvements to make.
 

vargsmetal

Active member
yep, that crossmember is 'live'. The front end's socket in the control arm is very close to the pivot point so there's a very small arc of motion. To the torsion key is nodding up and down in the crossmember, as well as the rearward thrust of the torsion bar allowed by the wear in the front bushings.

I'm definitely replacing the lower control arms / bushings / ball joint soon. Have to unship the torsion bars then anyway. So I'll work on the modified control arm bushing idea and have it ready by then.

One other measurement - the bolt sleeve in the frame mount is the same dimension as the gap in the crossmember, just a touch over 1.5".


eta

dimensions needed for modified bushings

torsion bushing sizings.jpg


I'll get something a little more exact when I have time to think about it more. Where things are exacting and where there's wiggle room. If I can't find some 'found' rubber or poly bushings that come close enough to modify easily, maybe I can find someone with a lathe that can mill some hockey pucks.
I have to double check, but I'm 90% sure the torsion bar crossmember in my GMT400 is bolted solid to the frame. I'm guessing that bushing was added to the GMT800 to improve NVH.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
well looked at the EnergySuspension catalog and it seems their Universal kit 9.9485 is the closest thing. But they'd have to be modified in diameter of the barrel of the bushing, narrowed from 2" to 1-7/8", their central hole enlarged from 7/8" to 1", and 1/2" cut off the barrel length. AND their flange thickness is just .22", instead of a desired .3125 (3/16"). So three operation to trim them up and still need one of my rubber washer inserts added on the front face to fully stuff the torsion crossmember gap.
Kit's $25 on Amazon.

I'm going to poke around some more trying to find some control arm bushings that I can just trim to length and be done with. But I'll do all the other operations if I have to.

There's YouTube vids of people milling vulcanized rubber hockey pucks on lathes. It can be done. Pucks are ~$2 each. Four operations on each. MIll the center hole, mill the barrel, trim the barrel length, reverse the puck in the chuck and mill the flange outer diameter. x4 pucks. Have to find a hobbiest with a lathe willing to give it a go.


As for removing the old mount cores, there's enough room forward of the mounts for an impact gun, so I can get a drill and bits in there, figure I can drill a bunch of 1/4" holes in the rubber all around the bolt sleeve and knock or chisel the thing out of the steel ring. Then use a die grinder and some drum sanding bits to clean up the inner surface of the ring mount. Then strip the rubber off the sleeve with various torture implements.


Greased up all the fittings I could find, shot some silicon grease in my fancy Spohn rear lowers, greased my rear control arm links and finally figured out my major suspension squeak. The rear spring lift spacers change the geometry of the rear sway bar and its end links. The right link strut makes contact with the e-brake cable shroud. As the vehicle rocks to a stop or start, the link shifts, puts side tension on the cable shroud, the cable shroud shifts laterally, dragging the shroud spring clips back and forth on the panhard bar. Shot some motorcycle chain lube on those and some grease on the shroud / strut contact. May consider re-arranging things so the e-brake shroud passes inside the end link, rather than stretched around its backside. Still getting a small bit of a rubbery balloon squeak noise coming from the rear at start / stop. Give that silicone grease some time to work in, that will probably go away. And still have a smaller shift-clunk in the front, pretty sure that's the lower control arm bushings / ball joints. Soon to be replaced.

Only other things left to mess with in this regard are the motor and transmission mounts. Visually they look ok. No visible distortions or tears. Had the missus pop the throttle a few times while I was looking around, engine / trans are not bucking around. Front diff / axle bolts are all tight. Had loosened those a couple years ago when changing the oil pump o-ring and pan gasket. Was worried they weren't tight.

If that squeak-clunk doesn't go away after the new lowers are in, I'll maybe start shooting silicone spray at anything rubber looking. Body mounts and the like.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
I just went ahead and ordered hockey pucks. I think I've figured a way to mill them using my drill press to drill their center holes and a custom jig with 1" dowel spindles to mount the pucks on and shave their diameters to what I want, on my table saw. Might even get greedy and set 4 sets of spindles on the jig, so I can run the whole set of four on each adjustment pass. One side of the jig, the row of spindles are inset the distance need to make the barrel of the bushing 1-7/8" in dia. The opposite side of the plywood jig plate, the row of spindles are inset a larger amount to create the 2-1/4" OD of the flanges.
Maybe a 'T' shaped locking bar down the centerline of the jig that clamps down on the inboard edges of the pucks, to keep them tight on the jig while making the saw pass. That way I can gang-saw the all without their rotating and binding the blade or having to try and hold each one down individually as it enters the saw. And frankly the clamp keeps my fingers a respectful distance from the blade, instead of trying to hold each puck.
I could even fashion a handle as part of that centerline clamp structure, so I could just set the pucks, spin a couple wing nuts or knobbed 1/4-20 bolts, grab the handle like a cardboard sixpack handle and slide the whole rig thru the saw. Use a Dado blade stack and I could hog most of the barrel cut out in 8 passes or so and then use a regular blade for some easy passes to make the thing round instead of octagonal.
I've got enough project scraps laying around that I have everything I need to make the jig right now

/fortunately I can count to 10 without using my fingers, so I've got that going for me
 
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jgaz

Adventurer
I just went ahead and ordered hockey pucks. I think I've figured a way to mill them using my drill press to drill their center holes and a custom jig with 1" dowel spindles to mount the pucks on and shave their diameters to what I want, on my table saw. Might even get greedy and set 4 sets of spindles on the jig, so I can run the whole set of four on each adjustment pass. One side of the jig, the row of spindles are inset the distance need to make the barrel of the bushing 1-7/8" in dia. The opposite side of the plywood jig plate, the row of spindles are inset a larger amount to create the 2-1/4" OD of the flanges.
Maybe a 'T' shaped locking bar down the centerline of the jig that clamps down on the inboard edges of the pucks, to keep them tight on the jig while making the saw pass. That way I can gang-saw the all without their rotating and binding the blade or having to try and hold each one down individually as it enters the saw. And frankly the clamp keeps my fingers a respectful distance from the blade, instead of trying to hold each puck.
I could even fashion a handle as part of that centerline clamp structure, so I could just set the pucks, spin a couple wing nuts or knobbed 1/4-20 bolts, grab the handle like a cardboard sixpack handle and slide the whole rig thru the saw. Use a Dado blade stack and I could hog most of the barrel cut out in 8 passes or so and then use a regular blade for some easy passes to make the thing round instead of octagonal.
I've got enough project scraps laying around that I have everything I need to make the jig right now

/fortunately I can count to 10 without using my fingers, so I've got that going for me
Take lots of pictures (I know you always do). It will be interesting to see how your method works.
I’ve only used a lathe to machine hockey pucks and now that I’ve retired the neatest one I have access to is 45 miles away.
 

lilkia

Active member
Rayra you said something before about the 2500 torsion crossmember mounts so I went and looked at mine. Unfortunately i didnt check the picture before i crawled back out from under the sub and it didnt come out real well. Ill try and get one when it drys out. The 2500 mounting is completely different. The crossmember hangs on a control arm. Its about 4"ish long and I think (cant remember) the pivot ends were turned 90° to each other so you had front to rear and lateral movement. Cant tell from the pic its pretty bad. Anyway the frame and everything is completely different set up. From the pics of yours the 2500 frame looks to be a couple inches taller but without measurements it might just be the way it looks in the pics
 

rho

Lost again
Hey, everyone!
I'm sort of taking over a lot of maintenance and mod work for my partners '03 GMC Sierra 1500, 2WD (5.3, towing pkg, G80, all the fun stuff) as she's the opposite of mechanically inclined and tends to kill car/trucks. Sooo I've started just doing stuff to it these days. Her general answer to fixing stuff is turning the stereo up or just running it into the ground. Yeah.
So we've been working on communicating better about when the truck makes weird noises or gets low on fluids... Plus I've started checking in on it every few weeks as its an older truck. A lot of this is in the spirit of trying to keep it on the road for as long as possible as it was my dads old work truck and we got a great deal on it. It has a full length bed slide and a hard tonneau cover, so we're trying to figure out what to do with those... Leaning towards keeping the slide, building a platform over it and then doing a soft topper or making a tent with the tonneau cover, my dads GF works at a shop that does boat covers/tops so that is something that I think will work rather well if we can design it well.

Because of taking over all this stuff on it, I'm getting ready to tear into the cooling system of the truck. So I have a new Rad, hoses and other stuff in the back of my jeep waiting to go in. Mostly maintenance stuff as the original radiator started leaking a few days ago. I'm curious if y'all have any suggestions for other things to look at while I'm in there.
I'm also thinking about upgrading the transmission cooler on it as well. it has the in-radiator cooler as well as the OEM external cooler, but I'm wondering if it'll be worth it to upgrade to a bigger unit on the truck?

I'm also digging into the suspension on it, I put some small spacers into the front suspension with new coils, shocks, and some other stuff to try to get it off the bumpstops and that sort of worked but I need to tear it apart to replace the pass lower control arm and some of the sway bar bushings (wish I did that when I was in there the first time, oh well). SO when I dig into it again I'll be putting in some 2" spacers and then re-building the rear leaf pack with some junkyard leafs to build a more progressive spring pack. That will be done by pulling the OEM springs apart, ditching the overload leaf and maybe the second leaf, keeping the main leaf and adding some shorter/thinner leafs to tune the pack a bit better. Hopefully with all of this I can get a couple inches of lift out of the front, a little out of the rear... Hopefully more level as well and with a bonus of increasing the ride quality overall. I really want to do a camburg mid-travel suspension on the front with more suspension tuning... Which, we might do at somepoint when its not her DD anymore.

At some point we'll be doing tires on it and I hope we can fit the old 285/75/16's from my JKU on the OEM wheels with the tiny bit of lift (and maybe some trimming) I'm adding to it. The truck has 3.73's in the rear end so that should be a good fit with the 5.3L and that gear ratio. We don't tow or haul with the truck at all, so it can be set up to be a bit less truck like and more "weeeee, Lets go fast!" which is kind of nice given my partner has a lead foot and already hauls ass in the thing when she's with it on dirt roads.

Anyways, these trucks are a blast and I'm constantly amazed at how well they do as highway cruisers and their overall durability/longevity.
 

rayra

Expedition Leader
The stab-on heater hose connections at the firewall are a point of failure, especially at high mileage. If you ever bump or dislodge one say when working on the #8 coil pack, their corroded o-rings disintegrate and you'll be raining fluid. I changed them on my missus' Tahoe without removing the intake manifold and it was a terrific pain in the rear to manipulate those connectors in those tight confines. Later on my Sub while doing a knock sensor replacement and seal change, having the intake off already for that (and changing the intake gaskets too), I went ahead and changed both those heater hose connectors while I had much easier access. It's discussed back in the earlier pages of this topic.
water pumps and thermostats are relatively inexpensive and very easy to change on these engines, consider changing it all at the same time, while you are already working on the system.
check out rockauto.com if you aren't already aware of them.
 
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rayra

Expedition Leader
Take lots of pictures (I know you always do). It will be interesting to see how your method works.
I’ve only used a lathe to machine hockey pucks and now that I’ve retired the neatest one I have access to is 45 miles away.

Will do. If I can get my aching back in gear, I intend to build the jig this afternoon / evening.
 

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