Stolen Adventure Trailer!!

[goodtimes]

Clarification

There has been some question as to the intent of my earlier post about staying on topic, so here is a clarification:

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss legal issues involved with the trailer in question. What we want to avoid is the discussion moving away from this incident, and to the broader topic of "how we treat criminals", which is the direction the thread was starting to take.

Does that make more sense?

 

[BajaTaco]

There has been some question as to the intent of my earlier post about staying on topic, so here is a clarification:

It is perfectly acceptable to discuss legal issues involved with the trailer in question. What we want to avoid is the discussion moving away from this incident, and to the broader topic of "how we treat criminals", which is the direction the thread was starting to take.

Does that make more sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. Thanks

 

[goodtimes]

Just some thoughts so this type of thing doesn't get carried away as well as keeping in mind our fundamental principle of jurisprudence, i.e. innocent until proven guilty....because the next time it could be any one of us accused of something we did or did not do.

This is a good point Vince.

I don't wear any rose colored glasses, but until the whole story comes out, we don't *really* know what happened.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn and Mario,

I have the greatest respect for you guys, your great business and product, and the postings you make on this forum. I really hope you get your trailer back. I think it's GREAT that ExPo members can help out. I too have been keeping my eyes open for it.

However, IMO, this thread has crossed into some questionable territory for both AT and ExPo. First of all, and correct me if I'm wrong, according to the CA Penal Code the trailer can still not be legally and technically classified as stolen. It's missing and there's been breach of contract...but yet many ExPo folk have posted on other forums that the trailer has been "stolen" and no doubt used the name of the "thief." It should be obvious to all why this gets into some questionable territory, and possibly legally culpable. There could be many reasons why the trailer has not been returned. If he returned the trailer tomorrow, I believe he would not be charged with theft...at least still at this point. (correct me if you definitely know otherwise)

Just some thoughts so this type of thing doesn't get carried away as well as keeping in mind our fundamental principle of jurisprudence, i.e. innocent until proven guilty....because the next time it could be any one of us accused of something we did or did not do.

Vince

Thank you for your insight.

You are correct at this point legally Jeremy Deckling is in breach of contract. The incident should be technically referred to as a possible theft. I'll make sure my statements reflect that.

 

[leftygun]

Martyn and Mario,

I have the greatest respect for you guys, your great business and product, and the postings you make on this forum. I really hope you get your trailer back. I think it's GREAT that ExPo members can help out. I too have been keeping my eyes open for it.

However, IMO, this thread has crossed into some questionable territory for both AT and ExPo. First of all, and correct me if I'm wrong, according to the CA Penal Code the trailer can still not be legally and technically classified as stolen. It's missing and there's been breach of contract...but yet many ExPo folk have posted on other forums that the trailer has been "stolen" and no doubt used the name of the "thief." It should be obvious to all why this gets into some questionable territory, and possibly legally culpable. There could be many reasons why the trailer has not been returned. If he returned the trailer tomorrow, I believe he would not be charged with theft...at least still at this point. (correct me if you definitely know otherwise)

Just some thoughts so this type of thing doesn't get carried away as well as keeping in mind our fundamental principle of jurisprudence, i.e. innocent until proven guilty....because the next time it could be any one of us accused of something we did or did not do.

FYI Vince:

503 PC (California Penal Code)

Embezzlement is the fraudulent appropriation of property by a person to whom it was intrusted.

Based on the value of the trailer, this crime would be punishable in the manner prescribed for a grand theft, a felony. (Per 514 PC (California Penal Code)

Unless there are some unknown explanations/extenuating circumstances, looks like we have a felony here boys. And yes, the person could be charged with a felony is he returned it tomorrow. Conviction- maybe. He would have to have a great excuse. Also, if AT is currently charging the credit card for daily rent, this would complicate the issue.

So Vince, yes we don't know why the guy still has the trailer, but yes he can be charged with felony depending on the explanation or lack therof.

 

[VikingVince]

FYI Vince:

So Vince, yes we don't know why the guy still has the trailer, but yes he can be charged with felony depending on the explanation or lack therof.

That wasn't my point and I never said he could not be charged with a felongy. Obviously he can be charged with a felony if, when, and once the conditions of the penal code have been met, which is not yet the case. My point was that up to this moment if time, he hasn't "stolen" the trailer, which IMO is an important distinction.

 

[Martyn]

That wasn't my point and I never said he could not be charged with a felongy. Obviously he can be charged with a felony if, when, and once the conditions of the penal code have been met, which is not yet the case. My point was that up to this moment if time, he hasn't "stolen" the trailer, which IMO is an important distinction.

Vince

Again I'm in agreement with you, at this point the trailer is missing, possibly stolen. Any number of things could have happened to the renters that none of us have thought of or have knowledge of.

The thing that's hard to explain is the sighting of the trailer and Black 4 door Jeep on the road after the return date.

 

[Seeker]

Wow... I've heard of searching the internet, but whacha gonna do when the internet comes searching for you?

M&M, I certainly hope you are able to recover your property (and that this guy has a helluva good story that you're able to get free beer on).

I'll keep my eyes peeled, but from SoCal, I don't think looking at the Sat images of Google Maps will do much good.

 

[leftygun]

That wasn't my point and I never said he could not be charged with a felongy. Obviously he can be charged with a felony if, when, and once the conditions of the penal code have been met, which is not yet the case. My point was that up to this moment if time, he hasn't "stolen" the trailer, which IMO is an important distinction.

I get your point. However, you don't know "he hasn't stolen the trailer" any more than others know/think he HAS stolen the trailer. Others on the forum are equally entitled to have the opinion that he stole it. It's not a court and it's their opinion, not stated fact. Let's get real here, based on the circumstances and this guys background, hmmmm. If he's legit, God bless him and we'll all be pleasantly surprised. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck.... ha ha, just kidding. I'm really not the argumentative type, but when I start hearing the penal code referenced, it peaks my curiosity. In this case, short of one or two certified letters from AT to the renter, the elements of the penal code will have been met for an arrest and attempted prosecution.

More importantly, I hope the fine peple at AT get their trailer back unscathed. The support they are receiving is an indication of their reputations.

Happy trails to all of you out there and good luck AT.

 

[ckkone]

Well I haven't posted on this thread yet, I'm sure the trailer will turn up eventually.....Probably stripped and burnt to the ground, but returned....

 

[taco chaser]

Great! Now I'll never be able to trust a man carrying a 12" buck knife off his belt and wearing mocasins in the middle of Upland again, dammit. That guy just never seemed right from the get go, I don't know why, he just gave off an uneasy feeling. Hope the kids are alright at least.

Hey Martyn, did you get the photo's I sent you?

 

[adventureduo]

Who knows, damn thing could have been stolen from the guy himself. Maybe he doesn't have the money to replace it and he's scared to call. Maybe the guy has been mugged (god forbid) and is walking back from the wilderness vehicle and trailerless. Who knows until it is found. Its all speculation. Anything could have happened.

 

[Christophe Noel]

Who knows until it this found. Its all speculation. Anything could have happened.

I tend to lean that way. This search should have been launched under the assumption that is family is in trouble and cannot return. Send out the SAR. Wouldn't be the first time. Something similar to this happened in the Yukon Territory years ago. When a tourist failed to return a snowmobile on time, everyone immediately searched the town and highways for a thief when the reality is a victom was stuck in the wilderness awaiting help.

The reality is this is a missing FAMILY as much as it is a missing trailer.

 

[Life_in_4Lo]

i thought the trailer had already been spotted in AZ? At least that was posted on other forums.

 

[taco chaser]

I tend to lean that way. This search should have been launched under the assumption that is family is in trouble and cannot return. Send out the SAR. Wouldn't be the first time. Something similar to this happened in the Yukon Territory years ago. When a tourist failed to return a snowmobile on time, everyone immediately searched the town and highways for a thief when the reality is a victom was stuck in the wilderness awaiting help.

The reality is this is a missing FAMILY as much as it is a missing trailer.

How are they missing if they have been spotted pulling the trailer long after the return date and with in hours of this post?