Jayco, Starcraft, Fleetwood vs. Adventure Trailer, Kimberly Kamper, etc.

[rusty_tlc]

.02 from a long time RV'er.

The problem I have with the Adventure type trailer is I can't see me climbing a ladder to get into bed. Or down one to get up for a late night nature call, and at my age that isn't if it's when. Plus 20 years of RV'ing have spoiled me, I dont want to freeze my cheeks off taking a whiz at three AM.

Our next rig will probably be a tent trailer. I looked at the "Off Road" trailers out there, Baja, RT etc. and decided they just werent that much better than a stock tent trailer.

The plan is to find an older or a rental return tent trailer. I will ditch the suspension and replace it with a 3/4 ton torsion axle, and probably add air bags. The frame will be boxed and gusseted. The undercarriage will be insulated and sealed. After restoring a 1957 Teardrop trailer I feel comfortable about re-building the cabinets so they will tak a lot of abuse. I'll add a rack on the top to hold whatever won't fit insied the tow rig, I also don't want to hoik crap on top of a lifted trail rig . I'm thinking we will also replace the hitch with the Treg or a pintel hitch.

Basic requirments for a starting trailer are, 8' or less box, heater, fridge, two burner stove. If it didn't already have it I would install a three way fridge.

 

[DUTCH]

.02 from a long time RV'er.

Our next rig will probably be a tent trailer. I looked at the "Off Road" trailers out there, Baja, RT etc. and decided they just werent that much better than a stock tent trailer.

From your requirements listed, you must not have looked at a King/Kimberley Kamper. It has pretty much everything you say that you want.

 

[ErrinV]

I haven't posted much here for quite some time, but it looks like I may be able to help out here...finally!

About a year ago I was drooling over an Adventure Trailer (still do!) and was considering purchasing one. I was looking for a solution for a better camping experience for my wife, and also the ability to bring my bike along. Since I have a shortbed truck, I had to rule out the AT trailer as I could not carry a bike in the back AND tow. I had to keep the tailgate down for room for the bike.

While at the show checking out the AT trailers, my wife spotted the Fleetwood Evolution. I immediately shrugged it off. I didn't think it was half as cool as the AT, but the fact that it had a toilet/shower(wife requirement) and a deck for my bike, it ended up meeting our needs.

After much shopping and comparisons, it came down to floorplan and we ended up with the Evolution E3.

First let me say that I have no delusions that this trailer is anywhere near as capable as the other trailers listed. (AT's, King Campers and Campas) It is HUGE...and WIDE. Because it sits on larger 15" wheels there's no seeing over it, and it's about 6" wider then my truck.

It's max weight is 4000lbs, but due to the design, when the deck is loaded (500lb max) the tounge weight goes through the roof. I loaded it up after we got it and the tounge weight was over 800lbs. So weight distibution bars are a neccesity. However you are not supposed to travel off-road with WD bars engaged, so I think that cancels out some of the allure of these trailers. If you have a large enough truck to handle the weight without the use of WD bars then you should be ok, but it's still a huge trailer.

We've only used it twice so far, but I can say that even though it's not as cool as an AT trailer, it is pretty damn nice. It has really spoiled me. Camping in the desert with the furnace on, and having a toilet in the middle of nowhere is pretty nice.

I did end up getting this because of the wifes requirements though, and she still hasn't camped in it. For one person it's just too much work. If she doesn't try it out soon, I can see having a great excuse to trade it for an AT, Campa or FourWheel Camper. However, for taking the family out to the desert it's tough to beat. It's just so big inside.

Here's some pics.

Death Valley

Me and my trailer.

Out at Wagon Wheel...near Ridgecrest.

KTM on deck

Interior Pics

Hopefully this was helpful. Sorry for the long post.

Errin

 

[Bergger]

That is awesome and congratulations! I went a similar route back in 2001 with a fleetwood popup camper. Unfortunately they did not have the evolution at that time. I think those types of campers are great. Yes while they can not go where an AT can go they are extremely comfortable and most importantly they keep the wife happy. We like to set ours up in a base camp then 4wheel and hike from it. It is nice to come home at the end of the day to something that nice. And if we intend to go someplace the camper can't make it, well, the camper just stays home and we use the tent cot. Once again, congrats on your purchase. I'm jealous now since I've been eyeballing the E1 or E2 for a while now. Just curious, did you get a chance to look at and compare the fleetwood to the jayco baja?

 

[ErrinV]

Just curious, did you get a chance to look at and compare the fleetwood to the jayco baja?

I think the best way to use these is, as you said, a basecamp. We camped at Furnace Creek in Death Valley and then rode our bikes all over the park. Like you said, it's really nice to come back to a shower and bed.

As for the comparing, yes I did. I looked at the Fleetwoods, Jayco Baja and Starcraft RT series. The ones I liked the best were the Starcraft RT14 (If I remember correctly, it's the non-slideout one) and the Jayco Baja. We went to a RV show and right away the wife didn't like the Baja. Felt it was too small. However this was right after she walked through the 22ft travel trailer that her parents where looking at, so it wasn't exactly fair. There were no Starcrafts at the show so we then looked at the Fleetwoods. We started in the E2 and it was ok, but then when she got into the E3 she really liked that one.

The slideout in the E3 (I think the Starcraft RT13 also has one) is what makes the difference. It's a little more work to set up, not much, maybe 20 seconds, but it makes a huge difference in liveable space. We were going in and out of the trailers with 4 adults, and you could really feel the roominess (sp?) with the slideout.

There are a couple of drawbacks to the E3 though.

1. When folded for travel, the slideout takes up the floor space inside, so there is not much room to store supplies or gear. This not an issue with a non-slideout so you have lots of room for a cooler, firewood, chairs etc. This also means that you cannot carry much gear behind the axle, which adds weight to the tounge.

2. The fold over galley blocks access to the fridge, so in order to fill the fridge you must raise the roof, pull out the bunks and lift the galley up. We just take that into account and fill the fridge at the campsite and empty it before we leave. Not a big deal, just have to plan for it.

3. The roof overlaps the access door, so in order to get inside, you must raise the roof a couple of cranks. Again, not bad, just more work then neccessary I think.


The thing I liked about the Baja is that the cranks to raise the roof and lower the stabilizers store in the access door, so they are always handy, an there is less of a chance of them being left behind. Also the access door can be opened without raising the roof. Which is great for loading up the night before, or at the grocery store and then when you get home.

Overall, they are all so close that it really just came down to floorplan. The Starcrafts cost a little bit more, but they are optioned out already, while the Baja was the cheapest, but you may have to tack on some options. I think they all have pros and cons and it's just a matter of what you can deal with.

One thing I like about the Fleetwood, and I know this is lame, is that it's not just plain RV white. Both the Starcraft and Jayco are just boring old white with decals, but the Fleetwood comes in either grey or yellow. Like I said it's lame, but I feel like the Fleetwood is really aimed at me and not my grandparents.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Also check out RV.net for lots of info. I did alot of research there before I bought.

Errin

 

[Tucson T4R]

I final got out and took some pictures of my new King Kamper. We went camping for 5 days up in Richmond Basin, North of Globe Arizona. The trailer was great and easliy went everywhere I wanted to pull it.

We got dumped on the last night so the roads were really muddy at the top. I don't have any pictures of that because I was too puckered up driving down the slick muddy hills with a 2500 LB trailer behind me. :yikes: Once we got down below the slick mud, the rest of the trip was just rocky roads and sand washes.

 

[mountainpete]

WOW! That is too cool! It's like it's own city! :victory:

 

[Tucson T4R]

Yep, we were out with about 9 of my friends and they were all refering to it as "The Castle". :victory: Definitly had all the comforts of home, including a desiel heater. :campfire:

 

[Bergger]

Cool looking camper. Does it really weigh 2500lbs? How long does it take to set all that up? Any issues with critters getting into your kitchen area? I imagine you need to secure everything at night since there is no floor on the tent. I've looked at those but the price is keeping me away. Have also considered a Kamparoo as a lite weight camper but it's going to be a hard sell to the wife. She really likes the comfort of our coleman popup.

 

[Scott Brady]

Brad,

Awesome pictures. Thanks for the comments and photos.

We will need to get you to the Expedition Trophy

 

[Tucson T4R]

Cool looking camper. Does it really weigh 2500lbs? How long does it take to set all that up? Any issues with critters getting into your kitchen area? I imagine you need to secure everything at night since there is no floor on the tent. I've looked at those but the price is keeping me away. Have also considered a Kamparoo as a lite weight camper but it's going to be a hard sell to the wife. She really likes the comfort of our coleman popup.

It's about 2000 Lbs empty so I'm guessing at the 2500 lbs loaded with water, fuel, and equipment.The tongue wieght is only about 220 Lbs mpty and probably about 400 the way I had it loaded.

Those Ausies don't like critters getting in anything either. The entire canvas walls all the way around has a skirt that hangs down and can be buried with sand or dirt to seal the bottom. All the doors have velcro closures to seal out any unwanted guests. I was impressed with the detailed work they put into the design.

Plus, if you want to, the entire kitchen can be totaly closed up and locked down in about 5 mins.

It towed easily, even up 4X4 roads that my friends didn't like driving without a trailer. :clapsmile

My wife also likes the comforts so I added a Zoide hot water on demand shower and a porta pottie. Now she wants to get back out again. :camping:

 

[Tucson T4R]

How long does it take to set all that up?

I look at the set up as three steps that you can do just the first one for quick trips or all three for longer stays or bad weather.

The first is just to pick a spot and fold out the main trailer camper. That only takes about 5 mins to have it fully set up and ready to sleep in. In this case your kitchen would be outside.

Seting up just the porch took about 20 mins and was pretty easy.

Since it was our first time, the walls and the complete skirting around the trailer took about an hour. I think we could do it in about half that time now that we know the tricks. The design and craftmenship is excellent. Everything went together perfectly and would handle some pretty severe weather before having any challenges.

 

[kcowyo]

I final got out and took some pictures of my new King Kamper.

That King Kamper is awesome! :jumping: :clapsmile

 

[Pete]

A few questions

Hey Tucson, a few questions, as I am seriously considering the KK. I had heard that there were long wait times to get one. How long was your wait time after ordering it?

How well does the diesel heater work? Did you test it in freezing conditions? Can you smell the diesel fuel at all when it is working?

Do you have any shots of the sleeping area(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

 

[Tucson T4R]

Hey Tucson, a few questions, as I am seriously considering the KK. I had heard that there were long wait times to get one. How long was your wait time after ordering it?

How well does the diesel heater work? Did you test it in freezing conditions? Can you smell the diesel fuel at all when it is working?

Do you have any shots of the sleeping area(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

I actually bought mine from the Mesa dealer as a personal purchase of his used Kamper. It was a 2006 model he bought last Feb and had only used it a few times. So there was no wait time for me. Slee Offroad is selling theirs now too.

Christo Slee
www.sleeoffroad.com
1-888-4X4-SLEE


I had heard of the delay rumor but when I checked with him, he had not heard of any problems ordering new models. I assume it would take 60-90 days but that is a total guess on my part.


The sleeping area is a full size queen mattress you climb up into just a few feet above the folded out floor. Mine also has the extra netted in room at the end of the Annex tent area. It's big enough for a full size cot with room to stand next to it or maybe a small table to be bug free if the rest of the porch was open. It goes up anytime you install the end canvas wall on that end so you could use it by itself with the rest of the porch open, or if you have all the walls up for a fully enclosed annex. Here's a shot from inside looking back at the extra netted room. Note: it was the first time and we hung it too close to the ceiling. I now know to hang it from the velcro straps so that it would be even across the top and reach floor all the way across.

I don't have any shots of mine but you can get the idea at this website. I'll get a few internal shots the next time I open it up.

http://www.kingkampers.com/buying/gallery.html

The diesel heater works great. It is a little underpowered if you are trying to heat the entire 200 sq ft annex tent area. I tried that and it ran constantly all night. It did keep the temp up to about 54 degrees when it was in the low 30's outside but I would avoid it. It does have a stove jack in the ceiling of the porch so you could use a wood burning stove if you needed serious heat out there. If you are just heating the primary fold out tent and sleeping area it kicks butt. It puts out heat at about 130 degrees and will easily keep the sleeping area as warm as you like even if it was in the 20s outside. It's managed by a thermostat you can reach from under the covers so you can crank it up before getting up in the morning if you want. :coffeedrink:

I had no diesel fuel smell because I used a sealed Scepter fuel container as my supply. The heater exhaust is routed outside the tent area in the back. You can feel the heat being exhausted but you don't see any perceptable smoke.

I am very happy with it and highly recommend one. The design and quality for this size adventure trailer is unmatched in the US. It's not a rock crawling trailer for the Rubicon but it will handle just about any other back road and beach condition you can run across.

My only other tip is to only get the "expanded tent" configuration. That is a minor design change that tilts the back wall out instead of in but that minor change makes a major difference in the usable space inside. Mine has room now for a small table and two chairs on the folded out inside floor area.

Here's few shots of it in my driveway. You can see the shape of the extended tent and little bit through the netting of the table and chairs inside.

I hope that helped. Let out a yell if you have any other questions.:1888fbbd:

PS. I noticed after posting that I had a table with benches inside when I took these pictues. I now use a small roll up table and two folding chairs instead of the table with bench seats.