netbooks

[geoffff]

Thanks, haven, for that summary!

I don't tend to see a touchscreen as a feature listed in these netbooks, but I guess it's not part of the minimal-cost netbook recipe. But for in-car use a touchscreen seems essential to me. I personally don't mind having the keyboard there too -- so I don't need a tablet -- but I'd love to find a cheap tiny new touchscreen netbook that's faster than my old Fujitsu P1120.

-- Geoff

 

[haven]

The touchscreen segment of the marketplace is changing very quickly.

Gigabyte is offering a convertible netbook (convertible = screen that swivels to lay open on top of keyboard) called the T1028X that has a higher screen resolution. See
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Notebook/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=3191

Some people like the Fujitsu Lifebook U820, a convertible with 5.6" 1280x800 color touchscreen. That's a bit too small for my eyes.
http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=U820

The Fujitsu T4310 is more usable: 12", 1366x768 screen, Core 2 Duo processor, Windows 7. But it costs $1100!
http://store.shopfujitsu.com/fpc/Ecommerce/buildseriesbean.do?series=T4310

Most of the netbooks with touch screens stick with 1024 x 600 resolution. Examples include the Viliv S7 (convertible), Kohjinsha SC3 (convertible), and Archos 9 (tablet).

Viliv has an S10 convertible in development, with a 10 inch screen that may have higher resolution.
http://blog.laptopmag.com/viliv-s10-promises-win-7-touch-10-hours-of-endurance
http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/09/viliv-s10-hands-on-video/

Chip Haven

 

[off-roader]

Chip, et al,

Speaking of touchscreens, I know with the Aspire One there is an aftermarket touchscreen upgrade you can buy and install yourself for <$150 or so.

With the Aspire One being $299 the total solution will likely be less expensive than another notebook/netbook that comes with the touchscreen option from the factory.

 

[haven]

Netbook makers will release a new round of models in January that include a new processor from Intel.

The new products are members of the Atom family.
Atom N450 ..... single core 1.66 GHz ..... available in January
Atom N470 ..... single core 1.83 GHz ..... available in Spring 2010
Atom N510 ..... dual core, speed unknown ..... available by Summer 2010

These processors are part of a new design called Pine Trail. Intel's previous Atom design had three chips: the CPU, the memory controller and graphics processor, and the I/O controller. The Pine Trail design integrates CPU, memory and graphics functions into a single chip. The I/O controller remains in a separate chip.

The integrated design of the Atom N450 means lower cost production, and reduced power consumption. The memory/graphics controller in earlier Atom chipsets used a lot of juice. The new N450 promises to increase your netbook's battery life.

Lower power consumption also means cooler operation. The N450 netbooks may do away with a cooling fan altogether.

The older Atom N270- and N280-equipped netbooks don't display high definition video smoothly. Unfortunately, the new N450 is not much of an improvement. The N450 is designed to work well with 480p video (images with 480 horizontal lines, scanned progressively), and may work acceptably with 720p. That's fine in a netbook, because most have a display with a maximum of 600 lines. A few models have 768 lines.

Intel says if you want 1080p video, you should look for a netbook that pairs the Broadcom Crystal HD video accelerator with the N450.

Chip Haven

 

[haven]

new processors, configurations in 2010

2010 will bring several new options to netbook hardware. In addition to the familiar Intel Atom 270 line, here are four new platforms competing for your attention, and a wide range of screen sizes. Here's an overview.

--------------------------------------------------------
Intel Diamondville series 45 nm process
--------------------------------------------------------

These are the original Atom processors, used in most netbooks to date. Intel's 945GSE chipset provides graphics support. The 945GSE is a weak link. It uses a lot of battery power, and performs poorly, especially when decoding HD movies. Diamondville processors will continue to be offered in 2010, particularly in netbooks sold in combination with cell phone company contracts. The new, improved Pineview processors will replace Diamondville in most netbooks by the end of 2010.

Atom N270, 1.6 GHz speed, introduced June 2008

Atom N280, 1.66 GHz, faster frontside bus, introduced Feb 2009

Examples
almost all netbooks produced by Dell, Asus, Acer, MSI and HP in 2009 used these processors


--------------------------------------------------------
Intel Atom Pineview processor 45 nm process
--------------------------------------------------------

The Pineview series combines cpu, gpu and memory controller into the same silicon die. This reduces power consumption. Intel's GN40 offers an improvement over the 945GSE in both graphics performance and power consumption.

Intel Atom N450 1.66GHz
Intel Atom N470, 1.83GHz faster 667MHz FSB

Intel Atom D400 and D500 dual core models coming later in 2010

Examples

Asus EEE PC 1005P $350
N450 processor, integrated GN40 graphics
10 inch, 1024 x 600 display
1GB of RAM, a 160GB hard drive
6 cell battery

Acer AO532h ~$440
N450 processor
integrated Intel graphics
1 GB RAM, 160 GB hard drive
10.1 inch display, 1024 x 600 or 1280 x 720
3 cell battery, maybe optional 6 cell


--------------------------------------------------------
Intel Atom Cedar Trail platform 32 nm process
--------------------------------------------------------
coming in 2011
more power efficient than Pine Trail
graphic performance up to twice as fast


--------------------------------------------------------
Intel Silverthorne processors 45 nm process
--------------------------------------------------------

The Silverthorne series is designed for low power consumption rather than performance. The GMA500 graphics processor works well with online video sources like YouTube and Hulu, up to 720p. Silverthorne can provide ample run time a smaller, lighter battery. This makes Silverthorne a good choice for smaller netbooks.

Intel Atom Z520 introduced April 2008
1.33 GHz, 220 mW average power consumption, $40

The Z series processors usually are paired with the Intel US15W chipset,
which includes the GMA500 graphics processor. This chipset uses considerably less power than the 945GSE graphics.

Examples

Archos 9 slate computer
$500
Atom Z510 1.1 GHz
GMA 500 graphics
9 inch, 1024 x 600 touchscreen display
1 GB RAM, 60 GB hard drive
optical mouse button
10.1 x 5.3 x 0.6 inches, 1.75 lbs
Windows 7

Onkyo NX707A4
(probably a re-branded Kohjinsha SK)
Intel Z520 processor
GMA 500 graphics
7 inch, 1024 x 600 display
1 GB RAM, 80 GB hard drive
built-in GPS
3 hour battery
measures 7.6&#8243; x 5.2&#8243; x 1.2&#8243;, weighs 1.6 lb.
convertible from netback to tablet form

Asus EEE PC 1201HAB
$329
12.1 inch 1366 x 768 display
Atom Z520 processor
GMA500 graphics, works OK with Hulu and YouTube
1 GB RAM, 160 GB hard drive
4400 mAh battery lasts about 6 hours



--------------------------------------------------------
Intel CULV processors 45 nm process
--------------------------------------------------------

CULV = "Consumer ultra-low voltage." This series includes several dual core processors, which may offer improved performance for general computing applications. Manufacturers are pairing the dual core processors with larger screens and higher prices. These models are probably best thought of as ultra light laptops, rather than netbooks.

Examples

Acer Aspire Timeline 1810T
$550
Intel CULV SU7300 dual core CPU 1.3GHz.
GMA 4500MHD chipset, which can handle up to 4GB of memory.
11.6-inch touchscreen display, 1366 x 768 resolution.
3 GB RAM, 320 GB hard drive
HDMI port to connect to HD TV

Acer 1820TPZ
$800
as above, with Pentium SU4100 (dual-core, 1.3GHz)
11.6 inch touchscreen that rotates and folds flat over keyboard
5600 mAh battery, 7 hours run timed

Dell Inspiron 11z
$675
1.3 GHz SU4100 dual core processor
GMA 4500MHD graphics
11.6 inch display
2 GB RAM, 250 GB hard drive
6 cell battery


MSI X-Slim X350
Intel SU4100 dual core processor
Intel GMA 4500MHD graphics
13.4 inch display, 1366 x 768
2 GB RAM, 320 GB hard drive
HDMI port


Intel applies its familiar brand names to the CULV processor family, including Celeron, Dual Core, Core 2 Solo and Core 2 Duo

Celeron M (1 M cache, FSB 800 MHz, 10 W max)
ULV 723 1.2 GHz

Core 2 Solo SU2xxx (1Mb cache, FSB 533 MHz, 5.5 W max)
SU2100 1.06 GHz
SU2200 1.20 GHz
SU2500
SU2600
SU2700

Core 2 Solo SU3xxx (3MB cache, FSB 800 MHz, 5.5 W max)
SU3300 1.2 GHz
SU 3500 1.6 GHz

dual core, 2M cache, FSB 800 MHz, 10W max
SU4100 1.3MHz
SU4500
SU4700

Core 2 Duo, 3M cache, FSB 800 MHz, 10W max
SU7300 1.3 GHz
SU7800


--------------------------------------------------------
AMD Neo single core, Neo X2 dual core
--------------------------------------------------------

AMD has a line of processors and graphic coprocessors that offer performance better than Intel, but use more battery power to provide it. So Neo machines need larger batteries to provide the run time of the Intel-based netbooks. The Neo line was introduced in the highly regarded HP Pavilion DV2 ($500).

The AMD Neo line consists of an AMD Congo MV40 processor and ATI Radeon HD3200 graphics

examples:

Asus EEE PC 1201T
MV40 1.6 GHz processor
ATI Radeon HD3200 graphics
2 GB RAM, 250 GB hard drive
12.1 inch display,1366 x 768
6 cell 47 WH battery lasts 6 hours
Dimensions 11.7&#8243; x 8.2&#8243; 1.3&#8243; Weight: 3.2 pounds

MSI Wind U210

MSI Wind U230 dual core

HP Pavilion DV2


--------------------------------------------------------
Nvidia ION
--------------------------------------------------------

ION graphics processor, effectively an Nvidia GeForce 9400M
handles 1080p Flash video and 1080p HD video
designed for use with Intel Atom N270 processors

ION 2, for Intel Atom N450, coming early 2010

Example:

HP Mini 311
$400
Atom N270 1.6 GHz
Ion graphics processor
11.6 inch screen 1366 x 768
2 GB RAM, 250 GB disk
HDMI output
Windows 7
6 cell 55 WH battery, runs ~4.5 hours
11.4&#8243; x 8&#8243; x 1.2&#8243; and weighs 3.5 pounds


Asus EEE PC 1201N
about $500
Atom 330 dual core
Nvidia Ion graphics
12.1 inch display, 1366 x 768


--------------------------------------------------------
Via Nano
--------------------------------------------------------

VIA has a new processor named Nano, which is faster and uses less power than previous VIA models.

Examples: a couple of models distributed in China only

 

[haven]

At this point, it looks like the netbook market will stratify as follows:

netbooks with 10 inch screens, original Atom processors - $300
These models will be offered for as little as $95 when you sign up for a 3G contract with a cell phone company.

netbooks with 11.6 inch screens, new Atom processors - $400

netbooks with 11.6 inch screens, new Atom dual core processors, AMD Neo processors, or Atom plus Nvidia graphics co-processor - $450+

netbooks with 12.1 or larger screens, CULV dual core processors - $500+

It will take a couple of months of testing before a consensus emerges about the performance of single core vs dual core netbook processors.
And at the same time, the manufacturers will start cutting prices, making the calculation of best value even more difficult!

The original netbooks were designed to give you simple computing power and Internet access in a small, lightweight package. This role is about to be taken over by mobile internet devices (MIDs). In general, MIDs run ARM processors and operating systems designed for cell phones, such as Google Android. In 2010, the MID may be the true successor to the netbook.

 

[haven]

Here's an example of what a mainstream netbook will look like in 2010.
Dell will update its Inspiron Mini 10 line, and add extra options.

Mini 10 (probably will have some letter designation after the 10)
Intel Atom N450 processor
integrated Intel graphics processor
1 GB RAM, 160 GB hard drive
10.1 inch color display, 1024 x 600 pixels
Windows 7 Starter Edition
10.5 x 7.8 x 1.3 inches
2.75 lb. with 3 cell battery, 3.1 lb. with 6 cell battery
$299

The fun starts when you consider the options:
1366 x 768 pixel display
Broadcom graphics accelerator
Bluetooth
3G cell phone for Internet access
GPS
6 cell battery
Windows 7 Home Premium
more RAM, larger hard drive

It may be the case that you won't be able to add all options.
For example, the graphics accelerator and the GPS may need
a mini-PCI slot.

Of course, a fully loaded Mini 10 will cost a lot more than $299!

 

[chet]

add a flip screen and its perfect!

 

[haven]

Here's a look at the new portable computer design that's part netbook,
part notebook, at an affordable price

http://www.frys.com/product/6059448

Acer Aspire AS1410-2285
$349 after $50 instant rebate

Intel SU2300 dual core Celeron processor
.. tests show this processor is up to 3 times faster than typical Atom 270 found in netbooks
.. see test results here http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?p=24941113#post24941113

Intel integrated 4500MHD graphics
.. plays 720p video great, 1080p video OK

11.6" 1366 x 768 display, LED-backlit
HDMI and VGA graphics output

2 GB RAM, expandable to 4 GB (2 slots)
160GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive

6-Cell Lithium-Ion Battery, 4400 mAh
the more powerful processor uses more juice, so figure 4-5 hours runtime

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

dimensions 11.2" x 8.0" x 0.9" - 1.2"
3.10 lbs

 

[sgaynor]

FYI - I have a "new" ASUS 8.9" notebook for sale in the forsale section.

 

[haven]

jan 2010 convertibles

Here's a list of today's laptops that convert from standard clamshell mode to slate mode by rotating the screen and folding it down over the keyboard.

5 inch
Fujitsu Lifebook UH900 Multi-Touch

7 inch screen
Kohjinsha SC3
Viliv S7

9 inch screen
Asus EEE PC T91
Gigabyte M912X

10 inch screen
Asus EEE model coming in 2010
Viliv X10 Blade
Lenovo Ideapad S10-3T

11.6 inch screen
Acer's Aspire Timeline 1810PTZ

12 inch screen
HP TouchSmart tm2
Fujitsu Lifebook T4310
Lenovo X200t


Of the bunch, I like the Lenovo Ideapad S10-3T. The version I like has these specs:
1.83GHz N470 Atom Pineview Atom processor (that's faster than the typical 1.66 MHz N450)
2 GB RAM, 250 GB HDD
10 inch capacitive multi-touch display
Windows 7 Home Premium
2.5 lbs
$649

Note that the capacitive display works with your fingers only, no stylus. And it does not include any scribble to text converter. The touchscreen is primarily for navigation, not for note taking. I think the Lenovo X200t is the only model above that includes the ability to digitize a stylus input
so you can take handwritten notes on the screen.

 

[eugene]

There are stylus made for capacitive displays, android and iphone forums talk about them every now and then.

I'm disappointed in the lack of 9" netbooks, that is right about the ideal size. The 10" are all about the same size as my old 12" laptop, not really any size advantage there, but everyone wants the 10" for the nearly full size keyboard.

 

[korisu56]

Is there a list of solid-state drives out there?

 

[opie]

I just purchased a HP mini 110-1125nr with the Windows 7 starter.

I removed all traces of norton and installed AVG Free. Along with Ccleaner and running Firefox as my browser. With a few tweaks to the Firefox Config file and some other suggestions from searching online.... This net book surfs and loads pages just as fast, if not faster than my desktop. Through the WiFi Ive achieved DL speeds up to 150kbs, which is plenty fast for me.

Now for some mapping software and GPS antenna.....

 

[rambrush]

That sounds pretty good I just picked up the ASUS UL80 running w7 I am using Delorme Topo 8 and Nat Geo Topo software currently using the delorme pn 40 for the gps but have a LT-40 on the way.
I have a BU-353 antenna that I have never got to work correctly so its off to the side.